7 ms·

Ya’ll are missing out on tiktok. I’ve been curating videos since 2019. Educational (404 vids): https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5Wvf1/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTR

Ya’ll are missing out on tiktok. I’ve been curating videos since 2019. Educational (404 vids): https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5Wvf1/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5Wvf1/ Physics (91): https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5TykN/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5TykN/ Mathematics (104): https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5gPKy/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRs5gPKy/ I challenge you to sit through 10 of these — pick any you want. You’ll feel your distaste for tiktok melt away. If tiktok is addictive, then HN is too, and largely for the same reasons. It’s full of interesting, fascinating, long tail content that only hand curation or ML algorithms can provide. If tiktok goes under, it takes these with it. People will migrate to whatever’s next, but if the rest of the world doesn’t, it’ll be our loss.

reactspa 4y ago
The West is butthurt that China produced an app that their kids love more than homegrown ones. Companies like TWTR, FB, IG are probably secretly pushing this ban. Some years ago, France tried to enforce some law that at least 75% of the content available on the internet in France had to be in the French language. The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts.
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  on the other hand China has banned Twitter, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitch etc etc so it’s only fair game to ban one of theirs
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    Nobody is making the claim that the ban is unfair.
  - beachwood23 4y ago
    It would be a sad day if we are judging our laws by China's. We have different structures and values.
  - 3d3456 4y ago
    > on the other hand China has banned Twitter, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitch etc They weren't "banned". They simply refused to comply with chinese laws and chose not to operate in china. Tiktok is complying with american laws and yet still are facing a ban. Apples and oranges. But considering twitter, google, amazon, facebook, twitch, etc are part of US intelligence, it should be banned in china and most of the world. And I think we should ban tiktok because it's part of the chinese intelligence apparatus. I hope this is the beginning of a fracturing of the tech world which will lead to a burgeoning of tech in europe, japan, china, russia, india, etc. Can you think of a single good reason why europe, japan, china, russia, india, etc shouldn't have their own apple, netflix, facebook, google, amazon, etc? I hope the "inter"net will truly be a network of networks. Where each major nation/region has their own protect technology ecosystem, networks, programming languages, social media, etc. I still believe in "inter"networking, but not where a single country "owns" the entire network/stack. I even hope this leads to tech fracturing in the US. We are too silicon valley centric. The northeast by itself is large, wealthy, talented and populous enough to host 2 or more "silicon valleys". Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon should have been east coast companies. We have a serious lack of competence amongst politicians worldwide when it comes to tech.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      > But considering twitter, google, amazon, facebook, twitch, etc are part of US intelligence Can you cite credible sources for this?
      - reactspa 4y ago
        Look up "The Twitter Files by Matt Taibi". Twitter uncritically and submissively followed directives from FBI and CIA. I read some headlines that Meta/FB too uncritically and submissively followed the same directives.
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        That's certainly the narrative Taibi attempted to portray, however it wasn't borne out in the evidence he provided.
  - msm_ 4y ago
    I don't have a strong opinion about TikTok one way or the other, but as an European I find this discussion interesting. I always found China's decision to ban foreign applications backwards and a setback to an open internet. And now USA is trying to do the same for largely the same reasons (to fight against foreign influence, basically). I'm not saying the countries are remotely comparable, but I just hope it won't become a new normal.
- jonathanlb 4y ago
  > The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts. TikTok's availability in the US is your metric for the success of the American experiment?
  - reactspa 4y ago
    When American innovations are banned in countries like Iran, Russia, France, and China, we laugh at them. If the shoe fits...
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      Who laughs at them? That’s not the sentiment in any groups I belong to or participate in…
    - jonathanlb 4y ago
      > Iran, Russia, France, and China One of these is not like the others.
      - reactspa 4y ago
        You'd be surprised at how protectionist France is. Especially when it concerns content in English.
    - jimbo9991 4y ago
      Some of us agree with the bans of American weapons of mass destruction as well as their equivalents promulgated by another world power. They should all be banned.
  - 3d3456 4y ago
    Huwaei first and now tiktok. It is an indication that american tech is starting to be outpaced by chinese tech. Which shouldn't be too shocking considering china recently has overtaken the US as the top producer of scientific research ( both in quality and quantity ). And this trend is only going to accelerate in the coming years/decades. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/11/china-overtakes-the-us-in-scientific-research-output https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/11/china-overtake... Banning huwaei and tiktok shows a lack of confidence in our ability to compete. The same thing happened with japanese car manufacturers in the 70s and 80s. In the 50s and 60s, we laughed at them but once they started making better cars, there were calls to ban japanese cars. The exact same rhetoric used against china today was used against japan back then. But since japan was an "ally", we forced them to transfer/share technology ( especially management/production techniques/technology ) with US manufacturers and move their car production to the US. I don't think we are going to be able to strong-arm and bully the chinese like we did the japanese. But ultimately, I think banning tiktok is a good thing because every nation should control their own media ( traditional or social ).
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  I largely agree with you but >The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts. is one of the most absurd statements that I have ever heard.
- theknocker 4y ago
  [dead]
grupthink 4y ago
Thanks for sharing. I wonder why these content creators aren't publishing on YT? Maybe YT's recommendation algo is bad at surfacing this kind of content? Btw, this is a great collection. Bookmarked.
- mynegation 4y ago
  Most of successful ones are and try to nudge, as much as TikTok TOS allow them, users to subscribe to them on YouTube, because Yt is pretty much the only platform where it is possible to make some money from the views, as opposed to paid promotions and partnerships. As for the reasons TikTok is more popular, IMO it is both recommendation algorithm that is crazy good and UX where the next video is just one swipe up away.
  - grupthink 4y ago
    Thanks. While this sounds reasonable at first glance, it still doesn't quite answer my question. 1) YT pays by views. TikTok doesn't. So why not publish on YT? 2) TikTok is more popular as reported by whom? If self-reported, then we can disregard those stats. If reported by app store, well, that can be gamed. Just wondering how TikTok got so "popular".
gardenhedge 4y ago
I watched a few of the videos at random. Take the "perfect powers" with the guy with a banana pointing at a white board. Did I know that information before? No. Did I learn anything? Kind of but it's essentially trivial knowledge acquisition. I won't remember it in X hours, days, weeks. It's a waste of time. And I especially won't learn anything from it after scrolling on to 20+ more videos all with their own hot takes and fun facts. Another example: https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7079486996883983662 https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7079486996883983662 This is definitely pointless information and he concludes with an assertion that every film has been made already. If you look at the comments, the guy who made the tiktok is fighting with everyone. This is that guys latest TikTok video: https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7193505278887808302 https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7193505278887808302
- movedx 4y ago
  > I watched a few of the videos at random. Take the "perfect powers" with the guy with a banana pointing at a white board. Did I know that information before? No. Did I learn anything? Kind of but it's essentially trivial knowledge acquisition. I won't remember it in X hours, days, weeks. It's a waste of time. I'm an educator and content creator. Can I ask what kind video content you do want to see? What content do you find most useful for knowledge retention, and how do you prefer it to be delivered? 5m video? 15m? 5h?
  - gardenhedge 4y ago
    For it to be retained I think it needs to be part of a learning stream or process. E.g. I am purposefully learning about unique number properties and the "perfect powers" video is part of that. Edit: I just checked out https://upload.academy/ https://upload.academy/ on your profile. Content looks awesome. Well done!
    - movedx 4y ago
      Thank you so much for your feedback. How do you feel about written materials? And thank you! There's a big change coming to how we deliver our products, which will have a very strong focus on 1-2-1 mentoring and a private community and streaming content.
mike_d 4y ago
> I challenge you to sit through 10 of these — pick any you want. You’ll feel your distaste for tiktok melt away. We don't dislike TikTok because the content isn't compelling. It is an arm of a foreign state intelligence agency that is used against Americans.
blown_gasket 4y ago
I tried to make it through 10; managed through 4 TikTok videos (or rather the majority). I did this on the TikTok website because I'm not going to download the app. The results: Odd Results of Geometry on a Sphere - interesting video, I don't know why the results are 'odd' though. I would have liked to see a formal proof involved rathe r than a quick sketch and a 'believe you, me'. Doors or Wheels - 2 minutes or so of time spent talking about people that are contemplating if there are more doors or wheels in the world. Just an overall waste of 2 minutes. Your Bible is Worthless - was a 'neat' video about how your family bible has no value to a collector, which I would have guessed anyway. The website kicked me into a video before the video was done; will try again just to see if it was a fluke. Making a circuit board - someone that just learned how to make a schematic on a computer and then print it out shares their learning experience. They are super excited about it which is nice to see, but they kind of annoyed me. The website also kicked me into another video before the video was done; second time. What HN doesn't do is kick me to one thread while I'm looking at another. If TikTok didn't do this I would have gone through the 10 videos, but I already feel animosity towards most software these days, so in my leisure time I'm not going to put up with it.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Oof. I agree with you that that’s an especially frustrating experience. For what it’s worth, the website is a weird alternate not-TikTok universe in that sense. The app wouldn’t do that to you. It certainly has flaws. I’m just uncomfortable with the notion that it’s entirely worthless and that a nationwide ban is fine. It seems mistaken, and it could be a costly mistake.
  - weard_beard 4y ago
    The US government isn’t banning it because it is worthless. This isn’t about the content in any way. It is about the collection of data by a major foreign power and the use of that data to feed specific propaganda to US government personnel. My take on it is unless the US government is willing to formally show proof it is direct foreign propaganda they should not be allowed to ban it and the bar for that proof should be HIGH. Slippery slopes and all.. What keeps the next president from declaring CNN or Fox News or Google or the AP “propaganda” and pretty soon government devices will be a stupid shitty battleground for cheap political points and not safe work devices.
thrwawy74 4y ago
I don't think people disagree with legitimate content, just the huge amounts of spying the Chinese gov does. If anything it highlights that Google needs to take privacy seriously and close the same doors they and other companies use to exploit our digital information. I wish we had better consumer protection laws.
mik1998 4y ago
I watched a few from the math category and it seems pretty bad. They're all very superficial, low quality videos. Definitely don't feel any less distaste for tiktok. The form of a short video with the mobile screen ratio is already... bleh. I don't think you can manage to convey anything interesting in the span of a minute or two.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
You can get this exact experience from YouTube shorts, TikTok is unnecessary.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  you know youtube shorts only exists because tiktok was eating their lunch right?
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    Yeah, and they executed it well enough that now TikTok, if it is a security threat, can safely be removed from the US without any loss.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
      We must be in different worlds. In no way does Youtube Shorts compare with the scale, quality and delivery of what tiktok is doing.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        It’s the exact same content, creators upload to both now.
      - antifa 4y ago
        YouTube shorts are just as vapid and annoying as tiktok, not sure what's missing.
wdr1 4y ago
> If tiktok is addictive, then HN is too, and largely for the same reasons. There are material differences: - HN does not have a board seat for the Chinese Communist Party. TikTok does. - HN does not have an internal CCP committee. TikTok does. - HN is not subject China’s National Intelligence Law, which mandates corporations "support, assist and cooperate with the Chinese intelligence work". Tiktok is. > If tiktok goes under, it takes these with it. More than likely they would move to Shorts or Reels.
- amrocha 4y ago
  Why do you care about any of those things. What difference does it make if it's Google hoarding your data (and handing it over to the FBI whenever it wants to) vs Bytedance?
wkat4242 4y ago
I personally hate video content. I almost never use YouTube either. The format just doesn't work for me. So I won't look at these, but I do think an open mind is useful in general, yes. But don't forget in this case the arguments against TikTok have nothing to do with the content it offers.
- detaro 4y ago
  > China can control the recommendation algorithm on TikTok to manipulate or influence users > “It threatens our children’s [...] mental health Seem to be quite clearly arguments about content, too
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    In the media debate yes. But the proposed bill only mentions the data leaking issues. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34575613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34575613 I think the "for the children" argument is just spin, as usual.

reactspa 4y ago

The West is butthurt that China produced an app that their kids love more than homegrown ones. Companies like TWTR, FB, IG are probably secretly pushing this ban. Some years ago, France tried to enforce some law that at least 75% of the content available on the internet in France had to be in the French language. The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts.

drexlspivey 4y ago
on the other hand China has banned Twitter, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitch etc etc so it’s only fair game to ban one of theirs
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  Nobody is making the claim that the ban is unfair.
- beachwood23 4y ago
  It would be a sad day if we are judging our laws by China's. We have different structures and values.
- 3d3456 4y ago
  > on the other hand China has banned Twitter, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Twitch etc They weren't "banned". They simply refused to comply with chinese laws and chose not to operate in china. Tiktok is complying with american laws and yet still are facing a ban. Apples and oranges. But considering twitter, google, amazon, facebook, twitch, etc are part of US intelligence, it should be banned in china and most of the world. And I think we should ban tiktok because it's part of the chinese intelligence apparatus. I hope this is the beginning of a fracturing of the tech world which will lead to a burgeoning of tech in europe, japan, china, russia, india, etc. Can you think of a single good reason why europe, japan, china, russia, india, etc shouldn't have their own apple, netflix, facebook, google, amazon, etc? I hope the "inter"net will truly be a network of networks. Where each major nation/region has their own protect technology ecosystem, networks, programming languages, social media, etc. I still believe in "inter"networking, but not where a single country "owns" the entire network/stack. I even hope this leads to tech fracturing in the US. We are too silicon valley centric. The northeast by itself is large, wealthy, talented and populous enough to host 2 or more "silicon valleys". Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon should have been east coast companies. We have a serious lack of competence amongst politicians worldwide when it comes to tech.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    > But considering twitter, google, amazon, facebook, twitch, etc are part of US intelligence Can you cite credible sources for this?
    - reactspa 4y ago
      Look up "The Twitter Files by Matt Taibi". Twitter uncritically and submissively followed directives from FBI and CIA. I read some headlines that Meta/FB too uncritically and submissively followed the same directives.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        That's certainly the narrative Taibi attempted to portray, however it wasn't borne out in the evidence he provided.
- msm_ 4y ago
  I don't have a strong opinion about TikTok one way or the other, but as an European I find this discussion interesting. I always found China's decision to ban foreign applications backwards and a setback to an open internet. And now USA is trying to do the same for largely the same reasons (to fight against foreign influence, basically). I'm not saying the countries are remotely comparable, but I just hope it won't become a new normal.
jonathanlb 4y ago
> The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts. TikTok's availability in the US is your metric for the success of the American experiment?
- reactspa 4y ago
  When American innovations are banned in countries like Iran, Russia, France, and China, we laugh at them. If the shoe fits...
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    Who laughs at them? That’s not the sentiment in any groups I belong to or participate in…
  - jonathanlb 4y ago
    > Iran, Russia, France, and China One of these is not like the others.
    - reactspa 4y ago
      You'd be surprised at how protectionist France is. Especially when it concerns content in English.
  - jimbo9991 4y ago
    Some of us agree with the bans of American weapons of mass destruction as well as their equivalents promulgated by another world power. They should all be banned.
- 3d3456 4y ago
  Huwaei first and now tiktok. It is an indication that american tech is starting to be outpaced by chinese tech. Which shouldn't be too shocking considering china recently has overtaken the US as the top producer of scientific research ( both in quality and quantity ). And this trend is only going to accelerate in the coming years/decades. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/11/china-overtakes-the-us-in-scientific-research-output https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/11/china-overtake... Banning huwaei and tiktok shows a lack of confidence in our ability to compete. The same thing happened with japanese car manufacturers in the 70s and 80s. In the 50s and 60s, we laughed at them but once they started making better cars, there were calls to ban japanese cars. The exact same rhetoric used against china today was used against japan back then. But since japan was an "ally", we forced them to transfer/share technology ( especially management/production techniques/technology ) with US manufacturers and move their car production to the US. I don't think we are going to be able to strong-arm and bully the chinese like we did the japanese. But ultimately, I think banning tiktok is a good thing because every nation should control their own media ( traditional or social ).
sebzim4500 4y ago
I largely agree with you but >The day Tiktok is banned in the USA, that's the day the American decline starts. is one of the most absurd statements that I have ever heard.
theknocker 4y ago
[dead]

grupthink 4y ago

Thanks for sharing. I wonder why these content creators aren't publishing on YT? Maybe YT's recommendation algo is bad at surfacing this kind of content? Btw, this is a great collection. Bookmarked.

mynegation 4y ago
Most of successful ones are and try to nudge, as much as TikTok TOS allow them, users to subscribe to them on YouTube, because Yt is pretty much the only platform where it is possible to make some money from the views, as opposed to paid promotions and partnerships. As for the reasons TikTok is more popular, IMO it is both recommendation algorithm that is crazy good and UX where the next video is just one swipe up away.
- grupthink 4y ago
  Thanks. While this sounds reasonable at first glance, it still doesn't quite answer my question. 1) YT pays by views. TikTok doesn't. So why not publish on YT? 2) TikTok is more popular as reported by whom? If self-reported, then we can disregard those stats. If reported by app store, well, that can be gamed. Just wondering how TikTok got so "popular".

gardenhedge 4y ago

I watched a few of the videos at random. Take the "perfect powers" with the guy with a banana pointing at a white board. Did I know that information before? No. Did I learn anything? Kind of but it's essentially trivial knowledge acquisition. I won't remember it in X hours, days, weeks. It's a waste of time. And I especially won't learn anything from it after scrolling on to 20+ more videos all with their own hot takes and fun facts. Another example: https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7079486996883983662 https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7079486996883983662 This is definitely pointless information and he concludes with an assertion that every film has been made already. If you look at the comments, the guy who made the tiktok is fighting with everyone. This is that guys latest TikTok video: https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7193505278887808302 https://www.tiktok.com/@_hypedad/video/7193505278887808302

movedx 4y ago
> I watched a few of the videos at random. Take the "perfect powers" with the guy with a banana pointing at a white board. Did I know that information before? No. Did I learn anything? Kind of but it's essentially trivial knowledge acquisition. I won't remember it in X hours, days, weeks. It's a waste of time. I'm an educator and content creator. Can I ask what kind video content you do want to see? What content do you find most useful for knowledge retention, and how do you prefer it to be delivered? 5m video? 15m? 5h?
- gardenhedge 4y ago
  For it to be retained I think it needs to be part of a learning stream or process. E.g. I am purposefully learning about unique number properties and the "perfect powers" video is part of that. Edit: I just checked out https://upload.academy/ https://upload.academy/ on your profile. Content looks awesome. Well done!
  - movedx 4y ago
    Thank you so much for your feedback. How do you feel about written materials? And thank you! There's a big change coming to how we deliver our products, which will have a very strong focus on 1-2-1 mentoring and a private community and streaming content.

mike_d 4y ago

> I challenge you to sit through 10 of these — pick any you want. You’ll feel your distaste for tiktok melt away. We don't dislike TikTok because the content isn't compelling. It is an arm of a foreign state intelligence agency that is used against Americans.

blown_gasket 4y ago

I tried to make it through 10; managed through 4 TikTok videos (or rather the majority). I did this on the TikTok website because I'm not going to download the app. The results: Odd Results of Geometry on a Sphere - interesting video, I don't know why the results are 'odd' though. I would have liked to see a formal proof involved rathe r than a quick sketch and a 'believe you, me'. Doors or Wheels - 2 minutes or so of time spent talking about people that are contemplating if there are more doors or wheels in the world. Just an overall waste of 2 minutes. Your Bible is Worthless - was a 'neat' video about how your family bible has no value to a collector, which I would have guessed anyway. The website kicked me into a video before the video was done; will try again just to see if it was a fluke. Making a circuit board - someone that just learned how to make a schematic on a computer and then print it out shares their learning experience. They are super excited about it which is nice to see, but they kind of annoyed me. The website also kicked me into another video before the video was done; second time. What HN doesn't do is kick me to one thread while I'm looking at another. If TikTok didn't do this I would have gone through the 10 videos, but I already feel animosity towards most software these days, so in my leisure time I'm not going to put up with it.

sillysaurusx 4y ago
Oof. I agree with you that that’s an especially frustrating experience. For what it’s worth, the website is a weird alternate not-TikTok universe in that sense. The app wouldn’t do that to you. It certainly has flaws. I’m just uncomfortable with the notion that it’s entirely worthless and that a nationwide ban is fine. It seems mistaken, and it could be a costly mistake.
- weard_beard 4y ago
  The US government isn’t banning it because it is worthless. This isn’t about the content in any way. It is about the collection of data by a major foreign power and the use of that data to feed specific propaganda to US government personnel. My take on it is unless the US government is willing to formally show proof it is direct foreign propaganda they should not be allowed to ban it and the bar for that proof should be HIGH. Slippery slopes and all.. What keeps the next president from declaring CNN or Fox News or Google or the AP “propaganda” and pretty soon government devices will be a stupid shitty battleground for cheap political points and not safe work devices.

thrwawy74 4y ago

I don't think people disagree with legitimate content, just the huge amounts of spying the Chinese gov does. If anything it highlights that Google needs to take privacy seriously and close the same doors they and other companies use to exploit our digital information. I wish we had better consumer protection laws.

mik1998 4y ago

I watched a few from the math category and it seems pretty bad. They're all very superficial, low quality videos. Definitely don't feel any less distaste for tiktok. The form of a short video with the mobile screen ratio is already... bleh. I don't think you can manage to convey anything interesting in the span of a minute or two.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

You can get this exact experience from YouTube shorts, TikTok is unnecessary.

nickthegreek 4y ago
you know youtube shorts only exists because tiktok was eating their lunch right?
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  Yeah, and they executed it well enough that now TikTok, if it is a security threat, can safely be removed from the US without any loss.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago
    We must be in different worlds. In no way does Youtube Shorts compare with the scale, quality and delivery of what tiktok is doing.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      It’s the exact same content, creators upload to both now.
    - antifa 4y ago
      YouTube shorts are just as vapid and annoying as tiktok, not sure what's missing.

wdr1 4y ago

> If tiktok is addictive, then HN is too, and largely for the same reasons. There are material differences: - HN does not have a board seat for the Chinese Communist Party. TikTok does. - HN does not have an internal CCP committee. TikTok does. - HN is not subject China’s National Intelligence Law, which mandates corporations "support, assist and cooperate with the Chinese intelligence work". Tiktok is. > If tiktok goes under, it takes these with it. More than likely they would move to Shorts or Reels.

amrocha 4y ago
Why do you care about any of those things. What difference does it make if it's Google hoarding your data (and handing it over to the FBI whenever it wants to) vs Bytedance?

wkat4242 4y ago

I personally hate video content. I almost never use YouTube either. The format just doesn't work for me. So I won't look at these, but I do think an open mind is useful in general, yes. But don't forget in this case the arguments against TikTok have nothing to do with the content it offers.

detaro 4y ago
> China can control the recommendation algorithm on TikTok to manipulate or influence users > “It threatens our children’s [...] mental health Seem to be quite clearly arguments about content, too
- wkat4242 4y ago
  In the media debate yes. But the proposed bill only mentions the data leaking issues. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34575613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34575613 I think the "for the children" argument is just spin, as usual.