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FB will send requested data to the USA, not China. That’s really it.

ergocoder 4y ago
I'm surprised that people don't know nor understand this huge huge difference. Don't they know US and China are opposing global super power with multiple region conflicts like Taiwan, Japan, and etc.?
- Insanity 4y ago
  Okay, but see it this way. USA has my data vs China has my data. The odds of China having my data impacting my life in a negative way is lower than the USA doing this. That's an assumption, but I think for most people living in the West, that seems at least reasonable to me.
  - arealaccount 4y ago
    Nobody cares what happens with your data. They care what happens with the data belonging someone who will some day hold a position of power.
  - bcherny 4y ago
    The difference is the Chinese government has a board seat at ByteDance, not to mention soft control via broad government authority over markets. If China wants, boosting content to manipulate US elections or tracking the location of people of interest are things it can easily ask TikTok to do (and has done, apparently). This is different from the way the US government uses Facebook, for example. It does not have power to boost or demote content, or request location data for people of interest. It can collect far narrower information about people with a warrant, and even then some data it cannot collect (eg. e2ee messaging data).
    - Insanity 4y ago
      If CambridgeAnalytica is anything to go by, you can do that with US social media as well. (In terms of influencing elections etc).
      - bcherny 4y ago
        True, but it’s disingenuous to fail to acknowledge the difference between that and, say, the US State Department having a board seat at Meta and directing which posts should be boosted on everyones’ feeds.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    It’s not about the average individual so much as the risk to society. Let’s say a journalist has published some anti-Chinese material. Through TikTok, the Chinese know where he is precisely.
alberth 4y ago
Dumb question: are you suggesting FB doesn’t have to comply with other (non-US) government data requests?
- mattnewton 4y ago
  Not for the data of US citizens, no? I’d imagine (but don’t know) that they do for the citizens of those countries, but wouldn’t, for example, give your list of Facebook groups to the Indian government if asked. The later sounds like a major incident for FB to me but if TikTok was asked by the Chinese government we might not even know.
  - reactspa 4y ago
    How does FB know if someone's an American citizen? I wasn't asked my citizenship when I opened my account. You could be a foreign student living in America for years without becoming a citizen.
    - mattnewton 4y ago
      I’d suppose the onus of proving citizenship would be on the party requesting the information, to prove they have a legal right to it in their country? But I really don’t know.
- User23 4y ago
  They comply, their compliance just involves a whole lot of blacked out text.
- kube-system 4y ago
  I doubt they comply with any requests from the few countries they have no presence in.
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Ummm... More importantly... The government has more control over what kind of propaganda FB will spew. Almost none over TikTok.
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
What requested data? That I like memes? That I think Ferraris are cool? Like, what "leg up" does TikTok have on me? What's the worst they can do with that information? I'm pretty sure they aren't able to push Chinese government fueled propaganda of any kind onto my timeline because I'd just scroll past it. If they can't brainwash me... and all they have on me is "he dislikes ___ and likes ___"... what's the big deal? Sounds like FUD
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  Location data alone of known US government officials (data TikTok gathers) is huge. The US would have to subpoena Meta, and generally doesn’t because Meta would fight and win, DPRC just gets that info.
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    Technically you could use TikTok behind a VPN to prevent GeoIP and then disallow location access, but I get what you're saying. Very good point. I guess I was thinking from the perspective of me, an unimportant non-government official
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      Even you, random mid level employee at a gas company (for example) might find an anonymous email in your inbox, threatening to show your wife that you’ve been spending most of your lunches at your female coworkers house, unless you reply with your SSO creds.

I'm surprised that people don't know nor understand this huge huge difference. Don't they know US and China are opposing global super power with multiple region conflicts like Taiwan, Japan, and etc.?

Insanity 4y ago
Okay, but see it this way. USA has my data vs China has my data. The odds of China having my data impacting my life in a negative way is lower than the USA doing this. That's an assumption, but I think for most people living in the West, that seems at least reasonable to me.
- arealaccount 4y ago
  Nobody cares what happens with your data. They care what happens with the data belonging someone who will some day hold a position of power.
- bcherny 4y ago
  The difference is the Chinese government has a board seat at ByteDance, not to mention soft control via broad government authority over markets. If China wants, boosting content to manipulate US elections or tracking the location of people of interest are things it can easily ask TikTok to do (and has done, apparently). This is different from the way the US government uses Facebook, for example. It does not have power to boost or demote content, or request location data for people of interest. It can collect far narrower information about people with a warrant, and even then some data it cannot collect (eg. e2ee messaging data).
  - Insanity 4y ago
    If CambridgeAnalytica is anything to go by, you can do that with US social media as well. (In terms of influencing elections etc).
    - bcherny 4y ago
      True, but it’s disingenuous to fail to acknowledge the difference between that and, say, the US State Department having a board seat at Meta and directing which posts should be boosted on everyones’ feeds.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  It’s not about the average individual so much as the risk to society. Let’s say a journalist has published some anti-Chinese material. Through TikTok, the Chinese know where he is precisely.

alberth 4y ago

Dumb question: are you suggesting FB doesn’t have to comply with other (non-US) government data requests?

mattnewton 4y ago
Not for the data of US citizens, no? I’d imagine (but don’t know) that they do for the citizens of those countries, but wouldn’t, for example, give your list of Facebook groups to the Indian government if asked. The later sounds like a major incident for FB to me but if TikTok was asked by the Chinese government we might not even know.
- reactspa 4y ago
  How does FB know if someone's an American citizen? I wasn't asked my citizenship when I opened my account. You could be a foreign student living in America for years without becoming a citizen.
  - mattnewton 4y ago
    I’d suppose the onus of proving citizenship would be on the party requesting the information, to prove they have a legal right to it in their country? But I really don’t know.
User23 4y ago
They comply, their compliance just involves a whole lot of blacked out text.
kube-system 4y ago
I doubt they comply with any requests from the few countries they have no presence in.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

Ummm... More importantly... The government has more control over what kind of propaganda FB will spew. Almost none over TikTok.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago

What requested data? That I like memes? That I think Ferraris are cool? Like, what "leg up" does TikTok have on me? What's the worst they can do with that information? I'm pretty sure they aren't able to push Chinese government fueled propaganda of any kind onto my timeline because I'd just scroll past it. If they can't brainwash me... and all they have on me is "he dislikes ___ and likes ___"... what's the big deal? Sounds like FUD

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
Location data alone of known US government officials (data TikTok gathers) is huge. The US would have to subpoena Meta, and generally doesn’t because Meta would fight and win, DPRC just gets that info.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  Technically you could use TikTok behind a VPN to prevent GeoIP and then disallow location access, but I get what you're saying. Very good point. I guess I was thinking from the perspective of me, an unimportant non-government official
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    Even you, random mid level employee at a gas company (for example) might find an anonymous email in your inbox, threatening to show your wife that you’ve been spending most of your lunches at your female coworkers house, unless you reply with your SSO creds.