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Fortunately, we can still use Debian without systemd. I'm forced to use systemd in many places, but for example this laptop were I'm writing runs Debian without
by txutxu 4y ago
Fortunately, we can still use Debian without systemd. I'm forced to use systemd in many places, but for example this laptop were I'm writing runs Debian without systemd.
For me it's more to worry about: the influence that paid Ubuntu developers gain, year after year, inside Debian. Or the presence of ubuntu/canonical changes inside Debian packages.
Regarding Ubuntu... I'm forced to use it at work, and we use to "debianize" ubuntu servers... this is: remove snaps and snapd, remove netplan (for ifupdown), remove lot of dependencies that come with the minimal install (used only for their paid services), remove many services/packages (cloudinit, multipathd, polkit, motd-news, lxd, apport, etc)...
And the recommends of the recommends of the recommends of the recommends of all that.
In the last LTS, we we're forced to build our own installer at the end: a minimal live system + debootstrap + a couple of scripts (parted/mkfs/grub-install).
With the previous debian-based installer, we were able to fix most of the Canonical decisions via preseed... with the last version it was a pain until I did our own installer.
Still, for many people, being driven by ubuntu, is perfectly fine. They use to hate forced UI changes (i.e. my mum), but everything else is fine for them while "it works".
It's maybe just more technical people who are bothered by the underlying changes.
- jkepler 4y agoDo you mean your laptop runs Devuan? I get that is nearly the same as Debian, but does it include the Debian social contract and community? Isn't it a separate project? https://www.debian.org/social_contract https://www.debian.org/social_contract
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y agoIf you're going that way Devuan is probably a better choice, but Debian did support running without systemd and still has sysvinit on a best-effort basis - https://wiki.debian.org/Init https://wiki.debian.org/Init
- txutxu 4y agoSorry, it's not Devuan, but Debian 11.6, previously was 10.x and was on testing until Bullseye was released. Works for me without systemd, no problem. I already use systemd in hundreds of systems at work and personal servers/vps. But on my personal laptop, I have too many custom stuff after 20 years of thinking around, glued across all the layers (kernel, boot loader, init, background services, tty, graphical environment) and I did choose to keep my laptop with the traditional equiv of all the things that systemd does, just because of that. Debian is really flexible to allow you to choose components in the system, or to have more than one equivalent component, and to configure how they interact, and still be considered an official Debian system. And even to allow to people like me to do your own Debian if you want. That is the "official Debian" that I like, the one that allows me, that doesn't force me.
- csdreamer7 4y ago> Regarding Ubuntu... I'm forced to use it at work, and we use to "debianize" ubuntu servers... this is: remove snaps and snapd, remove netplan (for ifupdown), remove lot of dependencies that come with the minimal install (used only for their paid services), remove many services/packages (cloudinit, multipathd, polkit, motd-news, lxd, apport, etc)... > In the last LTS, we we're forced to build our own installer at the end: a minimal live system + debootstrap + a couple of scripts (parted/mkfs/grub-install). That is a lot of work. Why not use Debian itself? If you want that lts support you can use AlmaLinux in the RHEL clone camp. Not aware of any upsells in that system from my usage of it as a kiosk. The desktop is rough with some common packages missing from EL9, but the server would be excellent. Even CentOS Stream has longer free support than free Ubuntu LTS.
- andreareina 4y agoIt sounds like they have a top-down directive to use Ubuntu.
- txutxu 4y agoCorrect.