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It's certainly true that it spans political divides. YIMBYs are starting to notch up some wins, though, and both these pro-housing organizations are growing rap

by davidw 4y ago

It's certainly true that it spans political divides. YIMBYs are starting to notch up some wins, though, and both these pro-housing organizations are growing rapidly: * https://yimbyaction.org/ https://yimbyaction.org/ * https://welcomingneighbors.us/ https://welcomingneighbors.us/

mistermann 4y ago
As always, there's more going on behind the scenes as well. I'm a big fan of TikTok for getting insight into "what's out there" in the broad public psyche, and there are a lot of people[1] on there expressing in no uncertain terms their "displeasure" with the current system design. They tend to not get into details about to what extent they're willing to go to modify this state of affairs (or seek revenge), but history[1] well illustrates how carried away people can get when they are angry. [1] And I'm not talking the usual suspects (Trump supporters, "conspiracy theorists", etc) [2] Even as recent as January 6, 2021
rainsford 4y ago
I appreciate what those organizations are doing and I agree with their arguments, but like I said in my other top level reply to this article, I think those organizations would be more successful if they talked about why people should want more housing where they live specifically by focusing on the benefits for existing residents. Framing it entirely in terms of affordable housing or fighting homelessness or undoing racial segregation makes it really easy for people to take the position that we should absolutely build more housing in general, but why does it have to be where I live? The whole idea of NIMBYism is not necessarily opposing the idea of more housing, but just not wanting it in your neighborhood, and neither of those organizations seem to be making much of a counter-argument. I don't think YIMBY organizations should stop making those arguments, since it's certainly an important part of the debate. But I think they should also try appealing to people's self-interest by highlighting personal benefits like density building local businesses and services that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Give people a reason to not only want more housing, but want more housing where they already live.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
It spans political divides because it's a class issue not a culture one.
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  No, it's that humans don't like crowding. More competition for everything.
  - ushtaritk421 4y ago
    Humans who are incumbent property owners don't like crowding and want to preserve their privilege. Those who aren't don't mind being crowded in.
    - UIUC_06 4y ago
      Or don't have any choice. One test of that would be, do they opt for more personal space if the chance arises?
      - davidw 4y ago
        If people want personal space, the best way to ensure that is to buy up a large chunk of property. What people actually want is 1) to live in a nice place where there are a bunch of amenities and 2) to have space. But since 2 is expensive in nice places, they use zoning laws and other NIMBY stuff to try and get the space at others' expense, rather than buying a sufficiently large lot, which is not cheap.

by davidw 4y ago

mistermann 4y ago

As always, there's more going on behind the scenes as well. I'm a big fan of TikTok for getting insight into "what's out there" in the broad public psyche, and there are a lot of people[1] on there expressing in no uncertain terms their "displeasure" with the current system design. They tend to not get into details about to what extent they're willing to go to modify this state of affairs (or seek revenge), but history[1] well illustrates how carried away people can get when they are angry. [1] And I'm not talking the usual suspects (Trump supporters, "conspiracy theorists", etc) [2] Even as recent as January 6, 2021

rainsford 4y ago

I appreciate what those organizations are doing and I agree with their arguments, but like I said in my other top level reply to this article, I think those organizations would be more successful if they talked about why people should want more housing where they live specifically by focusing on the benefits for existing residents. Framing it entirely in terms of affordable housing or fighting homelessness or undoing racial segregation makes it really easy for people to take the position that we should absolutely build more housing in general, but why does it have to be where I live? The whole idea of NIMBYism is not necessarily opposing the idea of more housing, but just not wanting it in your neighborhood, and neither of those organizations seem to be making much of a counter-argument. I don't think YIMBY organizations should stop making those arguments, since it's certainly an important part of the debate. But I think they should also try appealing to people's self-interest by highlighting personal benefits like density building local businesses and services that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Give people a reason to not only want more housing, but want more housing where they already live.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago

It spans political divides because it's a class issue not a culture one.

UIUC_06 4y ago
No, it's that humans don't like crowding. More competition for everything.
- ushtaritk421 4y ago
  Humans who are incumbent property owners don't like crowding and want to preserve their privilege. Those who aren't don't mind being crowded in.
  - UIUC_06 4y ago
    Or don't have any choice. One test of that would be, do they opt for more personal space if the chance arises?
    - davidw 4y ago
      If people want personal space, the best way to ensure that is to buy up a large chunk of property. What people actually want is 1) to live in a nice place where there are a bunch of amenities and 2) to have space. But since 2 is expensive in nice places, they use zoning laws and other NIMBY stuff to try and get the space at others' expense, rather than buying a sufficiently large lot, which is not cheap.