5 ms·

I agree with you overall, but that "serve their country" line makes me cringe every time. The military's operations are vast and numerous, but also politically

by z3c0 4y ago

I agree with you overall, but that "serve their country" line makes me cringe every time. The military's operations are vast and numerous, but also politically-motivated and, at times, disgustingly utilitarian. Obviously, no grunt should bear that burden, but I feel better served by the post office.

sandworm101 4y ago
It is cringe worthy, but when you get orders for a multi-year posting far away from friends and family, it really does feel like servitude. It was -30 outside this morning. My car hates me for bringing it here.
- z3c0 4y ago
  Without a doubt, it is servitude, but I feel it downplays the plight of servicemen like yourself to roll it up into that "of country". The expended lives towards obtuse ends is far more tragic than that of something noble like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I wish you luck on your tour, wherever it is.
  - sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
    Do you think the soldiers should see themselves as capitalists in it for themselves?
    - z3c0 4y ago
      Yes, because we all are by merit of participation alone, and servicemen are often baited into enlisting via capitalistic motivators (enlistment bonus, GI bill, insurance, etc.) We'd be dealing with reality, not the denial proliferated by force in boot camps.
- quesera 4y ago
  Some people join the military to serve their country. But everyone in the military is indoctrinated to believe that they are serving their country. Some of them are shipped overseas. Some live in Virginia Beach. Some are physically endangered. Some sit behind a desk. There are good and noble people who choose a life of service. Some of them are in the military. Some of them are food kitchen volunteers. Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee. It's difficult to know the appropriate level of respect or honor to give to a random person displaying the paraphernalia of military service. "Thank you for your service" is free, and perhaps genuinely felt and received in some cases (but also vacuous at times). I've worked with a lot of ex-military folks. And several members of my family are current or former members. I can't think of a single trait that is common to all of them. Not physical fitness. Not leadership skills. Not honesty or honor or respectability. Not intelligence or grit or perseverance or fashion sense. The median is probably higher than the average across the whole population. So there may be a correlation. Except fashion sense! However this does not persuade me that there's a reason to differentially treat military vs random citizens in your example of a traffic stop. But I'm also not a cop!
  - lobocinza 4y ago
    Most like Top Gun?
  - tekknik 4y ago
    > Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee. I stopped reading here. Every military member swore an oath. They have no choice of duty, but they still swore the same oath to die for their country. Anybody attempting to minimize their sacrifices should remember things like Pearl Harbor, which killed all indiscriminately. And remember that desks fit in tents fit on ships and in tents, which are themselves in active war zones.
    - quesera 4y ago
      Stripped down, this is an appeal to emotion. It feels good and honorable to say, just like defending a member of your family. That is a goal of the mythology, and it works! It's a hell of a drug. I don't intend to criticize the military -- combat or non. But the psychology of it is fascinating.
      - tekknik 4y ago
        You said a whole lot of nothing here. Tell me how those willing to die are somehow the same as someone not and it’s somehow psychological? This seems like a psychological issue with some demanding they have given just as much, and are just as important, yet are too scared to pay the ultimate price. Or how about the psychological issue that results in hatred towards the military? That one I witnessed personally and I find very interesting.
        quesera 4y ago
        Some people love the Kool-Aid, some people drink it out of convenience, some people detest all sugary drinks on principle, and some people just find flavor chemistry to be fascinating.
  - sandworm101 4y ago
- lttlrck 4y ago
  Sorry to be blunt, but you chose that life. There are vast numbers of people serving their country economically (albeit perhaps indirectly) in uncomfortable circumstances and they all deserve respect.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    So what happens when nobody chooses that life? Will those contributing economically experience the safety they need to do their business? Additionally how many business owners are willing to die for their business?

by z3c0 4y ago

sandworm101 4y ago

It is cringe worthy, but when you get orders for a multi-year posting far away from friends and family, it really does feel like servitude. It was -30 outside this morning. My car hates me for bringing it here.

z3c0 4y ago
Without a doubt, it is servitude, but I feel it downplays the plight of servicemen like yourself to roll it up into that "of country". The expended lives towards obtuse ends is far more tragic than that of something noble like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I wish you luck on your tour, wherever it is.
- sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
  Do you think the soldiers should see themselves as capitalists in it for themselves?
  - z3c0 4y ago
    Yes, because we all are by merit of participation alone, and servicemen are often baited into enlisting via capitalistic motivators (enlistment bonus, GI bill, insurance, etc.) We'd be dealing with reality, not the denial proliferated by force in boot camps.
quesera 4y ago
Some people join the military to serve their country. But everyone in the military is indoctrinated to believe that they are serving their country. Some of them are shipped overseas. Some live in Virginia Beach. Some are physically endangered. Some sit behind a desk. There are good and noble people who choose a life of service. Some of them are in the military. Some of them are food kitchen volunteers. Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee. It's difficult to know the appropriate level of respect or honor to give to a random person displaying the paraphernalia of military service. "Thank you for your service" is free, and perhaps genuinely felt and received in some cases (but also vacuous at times). I've worked with a lot of ex-military folks. And several members of my family are current or former members. I can't think of a single trait that is common to all of them. Not physical fitness. Not leadership skills. Not honesty or honor or respectability. Not intelligence or grit or perseverance or fashion sense. The median is probably higher than the average across the whole population. So there may be a correlation. Except fashion sense! However this does not persuade me that there's a reason to differentially treat military vs random citizens in your example of a traffic stop. But I'm also not a cop!
- lobocinza 4y ago
  Most like Top Gun?
- tekknik 4y ago
  > Not everyone in the military is noble, or serving their country. Any more than any other federal employee. I stopped reading here. Every military member swore an oath. They have no choice of duty, but they still swore the same oath to die for their country. Anybody attempting to minimize their sacrifices should remember things like Pearl Harbor, which killed all indiscriminately. And remember that desks fit in tents fit on ships and in tents, which are themselves in active war zones.
  - quesera 4y ago
    Stripped down, this is an appeal to emotion. It feels good and honorable to say, just like defending a member of your family. That is a goal of the mythology, and it works! It's a hell of a drug. I don't intend to criticize the military -- combat or non. But the psychology of it is fascinating.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      You said a whole lot of nothing here. Tell me how those willing to die are somehow the same as someone not and it’s somehow psychological? This seems like a psychological issue with some demanding they have given just as much, and are just as important, yet are too scared to pay the ultimate price. Or how about the psychological issue that results in hatred towards the military? That one I witnessed personally and I find very interesting.
      - quesera 4y ago
        Some people love the Kool-Aid, some people drink it out of convenience, some people detest all sugary drinks on principle, and some people just find flavor chemistry to be fascinating.
- sandworm101 4y ago
lttlrck 4y ago
Sorry to be blunt, but you chose that life. There are vast numbers of people serving their country economically (albeit perhaps indirectly) in uncomfortable circumstances and they all deserve respect.
- tekknik 4y ago
  So what happens when nobody chooses that life? Will those contributing economically experience the safety they need to do their business? Additionally how many business owners are willing to die for their business?