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If you live in an European city you are probably already using the public transportation, plus cities are now full of e-bikes and e-scooters, this was not true

by GaggiX 4y ago

If you live in an European city you are probably already using the public transportation, plus cities are now full of e-bikes and e-scooters, this was not true until a few years ago, so yes, it is already happening, particularly for the 46% of Europeans you mentioned earlier.

threeseed 4y ago
Europe is a $413.50bn car market [1] I am going to take an educated guess that your views do not align with the majority of Europeans. [1] https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe
- xxs 4y ago
  In most of the EU larger cities is next to impossible to go work by car. If the office is outside the city and it has a large parking area - yes, but that's quite unlikely.
  - neuronic 4y ago
    Factually untrue, I live in a very large German city and going to office by car is completely normal. Where are you even getting this obviously false information from? Are you frequenting r/de on reddit or what? However, if we simply reduce the hyperbole "next to impossible" to something like "uneconomic" or "inconvenient" then we are getting closer to the truth. The only exception which MIGHT be somewhat close to impossible is Freiburg which is comparatively restrictive towards cars. Its population consists largely of economically weak students though, so it fits the crowd. Taking the car to commute to the very center of cities is an economically senseless thing to do in large urban areas in Germany unless your commute is from the outside of the city. Public transport and bike infrastrucutre is mostly good enough for most people despite large room for improvement, especially when looking at Netherlands or Denmark for comparison. This is also something that is VASTLY different from American ways of providing mobility, the situation is not comparable at all due to the average commute distances involved which are orders of magnitude higher in the US.
    - xxs 4y ago
      I am tempted to reply to that - zero idea where reddit (esp. /r/de) has come from. My experience with Germany, it's one of the most decentralized countries in Europe, going by train is pretty normal (parking near various train stations, outside the city is quite standard as well). "Next to impossible" comes from the traffic and how expensive (along how lacking) the parking in city centers is. I have lived in 4 different European counties and visited almost all of them. Germany wise (not lived) - I'd not consider Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart or Munich a place I'd like to drive to work every day. Dusseldorf was better, but still. Many EU capitals are pretty much hell just to drive through - I am hard pressed to say, "yay this one was ok". Most of the larger cities are just not designed to the amount of cars there are - the roads are relatively narrow too. (Also the parallels to the US are funny - I have lived all my life in Europe, visited the USA but that's all)
- GaggiX 4y ago
  I report my experiences in living in a European city, if you don't believe that most people already use public transportation or that cities are not full of e-bikes and e-scooters you can always visit one.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  So what? The statement was not 'market for cars is zero'. The statememt was " public transport and bikes will do most of heavy lifting". its expressed in passenger-miles, not $$$. Looking at $$$ does not consider efficiency. If you wanted to look at $$, what is the size of public transport budgets, markets for tickets and bikes?
  - threeseed 4y ago
    It is irrelevant who uses public transport, bikes or not. Because the European car market (which is larger than the US) needs EV options. And those options will need to factor in the conditions in those countries namely that there is a comparatively higher number of people renting and in apartments. Car markers clearly understand the problem and the opportunities here.
    - xxs 4y ago
      On EV - Newer buildings tend to have underground parking(s) with possible charging stations. But that's it - personally I'd consider a solar panel on the roof of a car a total waste of resources. Even if I've got a house, the car will be parked in a garage or under the roof, no (solar) charging there. Solar panels on the house roof are a whole different story.

by GaggiX 4y ago

threeseed 4y ago

Europe is a $413.50bn car market [1] I am going to take an educated guess that your views do not align with the majority of Europeans. [1] https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe

xxs 4y ago
In most of the EU larger cities is next to impossible to go work by car. If the office is outside the city and it has a large parking area - yes, but that's quite unlikely.
- neuronic 4y ago
  Factually untrue, I live in a very large German city and going to office by car is completely normal. Where are you even getting this obviously false information from? Are you frequenting r/de on reddit or what? However, if we simply reduce the hyperbole "next to impossible" to something like "uneconomic" or "inconvenient" then we are getting closer to the truth. The only exception which MIGHT be somewhat close to impossible is Freiburg which is comparatively restrictive towards cars. Its population consists largely of economically weak students though, so it fits the crowd. Taking the car to commute to the very center of cities is an economically senseless thing to do in large urban areas in Germany unless your commute is from the outside of the city. Public transport and bike infrastrucutre is mostly good enough for most people despite large room for improvement, especially when looking at Netherlands or Denmark for comparison. This is also something that is VASTLY different from American ways of providing mobility, the situation is not comparable at all due to the average commute distances involved which are orders of magnitude higher in the US.
  - xxs 4y ago
    I am tempted to reply to that - zero idea where reddit (esp. /r/de) has come from. My experience with Germany, it's one of the most decentralized countries in Europe, going by train is pretty normal (parking near various train stations, outside the city is quite standard as well). "Next to impossible" comes from the traffic and how expensive (along how lacking) the parking in city centers is. I have lived in 4 different European counties and visited almost all of them. Germany wise (not lived) - I'd not consider Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart or Munich a place I'd like to drive to work every day. Dusseldorf was better, but still. Many EU capitals are pretty much hell just to drive through - I am hard pressed to say, "yay this one was ok". Most of the larger cities are just not designed to the amount of cars there are - the roads are relatively narrow too. (Also the parallels to the US are funny - I have lived all my life in Europe, visited the USA but that's all)
GaggiX 4y ago
I report my experiences in living in a European city, if you don't believe that most people already use public transportation or that cities are not full of e-bikes and e-scooters you can always visit one.
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
So what? The statement was not 'market for cars is zero'. The statememt was " public transport and bikes will do most of heavy lifting". its expressed in passenger-miles, not $$$. Looking at $$$ does not consider efficiency. If you wanted to look at $$, what is the size of public transport budgets, markets for tickets and bikes?
- threeseed 4y ago
  It is irrelevant who uses public transport, bikes or not. Because the European car market (which is larger than the US) needs EV options. And those options will need to factor in the conditions in those countries namely that there is a comparatively higher number of people renting and in apartments. Car markers clearly understand the problem and the opportunities here.
  - xxs 4y ago
    On EV - Newer buildings tend to have underground parking(s) with possible charging stations. But that's it - personally I'd consider a solar panel on the roof of a car a total waste of resources. Even if I've got a house, the car will be parked in a garage or under the roof, no (solar) charging there. Solar panels on the house roof are a whole different story.