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Aptera is also close to production. Several other, manufacturers are adding solar to their vehicles. Also, there are a few electrical campers with some solar pa

Aptera is also close to production. Several other, manufacturers are adding solar to their vehicles. Also, there are a few electrical campers with some solar panels. So, basically these things are coming to market. And why not, it makes a lot of sense. Most cars don't drive most of the time. And if they are catching any light, you basically top up the battery a little bit for free. Or put differently, that's energy you don't have to pay for. Yes, it adds some cost. And it saves you money. Kind of balances things out pretty quickly. And it adds some convenience for day to day use where you add enough power that you don't have to go to a charger so often. Especially for short commutes, this makes a lot of sense. Dust is not a big deal. Indeed nothing a good old car wash can deal with. Or a bit of rain. Panel degradation happens very slowly otherwise. I don't think that's a huge concern.

steveBK123 4y ago
Aptera is far more likely to go out of business than to be the next Tesla. Right now in terms of likely to survive five years in EV land, you can rank Tesla>Rivian>Lucid>Fisker>Aptera>Lightyear .. and there's probably some other clowns I am forgetting. Like Lordstown, Nikola, Canoo, Faraday, Bollinger and Vinfast! Vinfast has a higher chance of being alive in 5 years than Aptera. At least they've made a bunch of (pretty bad) cars. Of the above list, if 3 of them beyond Tesla are still around on the other side of whatever recession is pending, and actually shipping cars in the 10k/year++ range, I'd be shocked.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  I think Bollinger is already bust. Rivian is dropping money like there is no tomorrow and they survive because they razed unimaginable amounts of money. Tesla isn't even in that league anymore, they are more profitable then all other car companies (outside of Toyota). Its more likely some of those will bust (or merge) before Tesla will go bust.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    That’s why I put Tesla at top of list. And frame it as which of the rest will survive. It’s baked in that Tesla will be fine.
  - thombat 4y ago
    That's a very apt typo: "razed" (burnt to the ground) for "raised" (collected funds)
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      I wish I was that clever and not just dyslexic.
      - thombat 4y ago
        Take it as a free win - and although I'm not dyslexic autocorrect works to portray me in a similar light, which of course I usually only notice after the edit window has closed.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  I have a reservation on a Canoo. It’s the most interesting EV out there, I hope the Army, Walmart, and NASA contracts keep them afloat long enough to launch the lifestyle vehicle.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Consider carefully if you are rich enough to consider it like an "extra car", such that even if they survive due to those contracts.. you are willing to be a guineau pig for a car which may not have a service center within 200mi of your home for 2+ years, go out of business before your warranty expires, etc.
panick21_ 4y ago
> Aptera is also close to production. If I had a penny for every time one of the EV startups claimed this. They go into production and then 1 year later they have like 20 produced and the year after that 100. And then the often go bust.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  Good ideas always start out small. Pennies are cheap and some of these ideas actually work out. That happens. But you see a lot of good ideas being copied. I think there are already several bigger manufactures that have announced solar panels as an option. A bit gimmicky for some of them of course. But its an easy up-sell and they love up-selling. Solar panels are widely used, widely understood to work, and the economics are trending to the point that you can slap them on just about everything. Like cars. Kind of obvious when you put it like that. Which is why that is a thing that is starting to happen in the car world right now. The couple of square meters of roof and hood provide a tempting target. You get maybe 2-3 kwh out of that on a nice day. That's 10-15 miles in an efficient EV. For most commuters, that would be very tempting and it might even be close to all they need on a daily basis. Meaning they'd be able to stretch their battery over weeks or months of use in between charging. Add grazing some free kwh at the supermarket or other places and it's perfect for people without the ability to charge at home.
jjav 4y ago
> you basically top up the battery a little bit for free. This is undeniably true. The catch is how very little that "little bit" actually is. I have both a boat and a travel trailer powered with solar (I occasionally plug in the travel trailer but the boat is 100% solar-only). And I've been planning on adding solar to a truck camper. So I'm a big believer in power independence through solar and I'm fairly familiar with the pros (free electricity off the grid) and cons (so very little power). For my use cases it just about works, by being very frugal with consumption. But these are use cases where the typical consumption is in the tens of watts. An EV uses tens of kilowatts to move itself. Three orders of magnitude more. Trying to run that off its own rooftop solar is akin to pouring a cup of water into Lake Mead to bring up the water level.

steveBK123 4y ago

Aptera is far more likely to go out of business than to be the next Tesla. Right now in terms of likely to survive five years in EV land, you can rank Tesla>Rivian>Lucid>Fisker>Aptera>Lightyear .. and there's probably some other clowns I am forgetting. Like Lordstown, Nikola, Canoo, Faraday, Bollinger and Vinfast! Vinfast has a higher chance of being alive in 5 years than Aptera. At least they've made a bunch of (pretty bad) cars. Of the above list, if 3 of them beyond Tesla are still around on the other side of whatever recession is pending, and actually shipping cars in the 10k/year++ range, I'd be shocked.

panick21_ 4y ago
I think Bollinger is already bust. Rivian is dropping money like there is no tomorrow and they survive because they razed unimaginable amounts of money. Tesla isn't even in that league anymore, they are more profitable then all other car companies (outside of Toyota). Its more likely some of those will bust (or merge) before Tesla will go bust.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  That’s why I put Tesla at top of list. And frame it as which of the rest will survive. It’s baked in that Tesla will be fine.
- thombat 4y ago
  That's a very apt typo: "razed" (burnt to the ground) for "raised" (collected funds)
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    I wish I was that clever and not just dyslexic.
    - thombat 4y ago
      Take it as a free win - and although I'm not dyslexic autocorrect works to portray me in a similar light, which of course I usually only notice after the edit window has closed.
twobitshifter 4y ago
I have a reservation on a Canoo. It’s the most interesting EV out there, I hope the Army, Walmart, and NASA contracts keep them afloat long enough to launch the lifestyle vehicle.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Consider carefully if you are rich enough to consider it like an "extra car", such that even if they survive due to those contracts.. you are willing to be a guineau pig for a car which may not have a service center within 200mi of your home for 2+ years, go out of business before your warranty expires, etc.

panick21_ 4y ago

> Aptera is also close to production. If I had a penny for every time one of the EV startups claimed this. They go into production and then 1 year later they have like 20 produced and the year after that 100. And then the often go bust.

jillesvangurp 4y ago
Good ideas always start out small. Pennies are cheap and some of these ideas actually work out. That happens. But you see a lot of good ideas being copied. I think there are already several bigger manufactures that have announced solar panels as an option. A bit gimmicky for some of them of course. But its an easy up-sell and they love up-selling. Solar panels are widely used, widely understood to work, and the economics are trending to the point that you can slap them on just about everything. Like cars. Kind of obvious when you put it like that. Which is why that is a thing that is starting to happen in the car world right now. The couple of square meters of roof and hood provide a tempting target. You get maybe 2-3 kwh out of that on a nice day. That's 10-15 miles in an efficient EV. For most commuters, that would be very tempting and it might even be close to all they need on a daily basis. Meaning they'd be able to stretch their battery over weeks or months of use in between charging. Add grazing some free kwh at the supermarket or other places and it's perfect for people without the ability to charge at home.

jjav 4y ago

> you basically top up the battery a little bit for free. This is undeniably true. The catch is how very little that "little bit" actually is. I have both a boat and a travel trailer powered with solar (I occasionally plug in the travel trailer but the boat is 100% solar-only). And I've been planning on adding solar to a truck camper. So I'm a big believer in power independence through solar and I'm fairly familiar with the pros (free electricity off the grid) and cons (so very little power). For my use cases it just about works, by being very frugal with consumption. But these are use cases where the typical consumption is in the tens of watts. An EV uses tens of kilowatts to move itself. Three orders of magnitude more. Trying to run that off its own rooftop solar is akin to pouring a cup of water into Lake Mead to bring up the water level.