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> You can build a small installation for your house * 30% of Europeans rent. 50% for Germany. * 46% of Europeans live in apartments. 63% for South Korea. It

> You can build a small installation for your house * 30% of Europeans rent. 50% for Germany. * 46% of Europeans live in apartments. 63% for South Korea. It reminds me of the whole "just install a charger at home" argument. It simply isn't an option for a large percentage of the world and alternatives will be needed. Solar cars may have some impractical elements but at least it's workable.

andrepd 4y ago
If they live in an apartment in a dense city then EVs aren't the solution anyways: e-bikes and public transport are, not clogging the city with electric SUVs transporting mostly one person at a time.
- threeseed 4y ago
  So all of Europe, South Korea etc are going to abandon their cars in favour of public transport and e-bikes. And this hasn't happened already because ..
  - GaggiX 4y ago
    If you live in an European city you are probably already using the public transportation, plus cities are now full of e-bikes and e-scooters, this was not true until a few years ago, so yes, it is already happening, particularly for the 46% of Europeans you mentioned earlier.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      Europe is a $413.50bn car market [1] I am going to take an educated guess that your views do not align with the majority of Europeans. [1] https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe
      - xxs 4y ago
        In most of the EU larger cities is next to impossible to go work by car. If the office is outside the city and it has a large parking area - yes, but that's quite unlikely.
        neuronic 4y ago
        Factually untrue, I live in a very large German city and going to office by car is completely normal. Where are you even getting this obviously false information from? Are you frequenting r/de on reddit or what? However, if we simply reduce the hyperbole "next to impossible" to something like "uneconomic" or "inconvenient" then we are getting closer to the truth. The only exception which MIGHT be somewhat close to impossible is Freiburg which is comparatively restrictive towards cars. Its population consists largely of economically weak students though, so it fits the crowd. Taking the car to commute to the very center of cities is an economically senseless thing to do in large urban areas in Germany unless your commute is from the outside of the city. Public transport and bike infrastrucutre is mostly good enough for most people despite large room for improvement, especially when looking at Netherlands or Denmark for comparison. This is also something that is VASTLY different from American ways of providing mobility, the situation is not comparable at all due to the average commute distances involved which are orders of magnitude higher in the US.
        xxs 4y ago
        I am tempted to reply to that - zero idea where reddit (esp. /r/de) has come from. My experience with Germany, it's one of the most decentralized countries in Europe, going by train is pretty normal (parking near various train stations, outside the city is quite standard as well). "Next to impossible" comes from the traffic and how expensive (along how lacking) the parking in city centers is. I have lived in 4 different European counties and visited almost all of them. Germany wise (not lived) - I'd not consider Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart or Munich a place I'd like to drive to work every day. Dusseldorf was better, but still. Many EU capitals are pretty much hell just to drive through - I am hard pressed to say, "yay this one was ok". Most of the larger cities are just not designed to the amount of cars there are - the roads are relatively narrow too. (Also the parallels to the US are funny - I have lived all my life in Europe, visited the USA but that's all)
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  big proponent of ebikes, they are sold in millioms and are making a bigfer difference than electric trucs, cars and planes at this point. It's less of an opportunity to make money, so its not talked about as much. Hyper ~ money mwking opportunity. if it improves your life, but isn't a money opportunity, thete is no hype.
steveBK123 4y ago
If you live in an urban dense environment like South Korea or Western European city, what wide-open, unobstructed, no-shadow&shade parking lots are you parking your car in? It's like sure, in Manhattan no one has a charger at home and most people live in rentals.. but also the cars are all parked underground or street parked on shaded side streets, so....
- phicoh 4y ago
  The Netherlands has a lot of parking next to the curb. So you can't install a private charger. Houses are often low enough that there will be sun on the car for quite a big part of the day.
- threeseed 4y ago
  I assume you haven't actually been to these cities. Because it's not like the entire city is a massive Shinjuku with ultra-high density and no sunlit spaces. It is mostly open places e.g. parks, regular housing, office zones etc with concentrations of apartments in select areas. And it doesn't address the point that 1/3 of Europe rents and can't just add solar panels.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    I have been to many of these cities, and I am thinking in percentage of consumers not percentage of land. Given the density of the dense areas, a quite large percentage of people live in these areas. Beyond that.. Yes Tokyo is a big sprawling city with lots of low-rise neighborhoods. However it's not like Tokyo really has street parking there either. Most of these cars are going to be underground. You need a permit in many areas of Japan certifying you have off-street parking for any car you purchase. So again, Tokyo is not like NYC where people just street park cars all over the place. That's why people complain about the urban character of US vs W Europe/Japan/etc.. most of those places don't have the "car culture" of America. You don't even need to add solar panels. Just being within 50ft of a 110V outlet one night a week is going to get you as much charge as these solar roof pipe dreams. There's a reason basically none of these have gone to market and the startups proposing them are either bankrupt or on the verge of it..
GaggiX 4y ago
The 46% and 63% you mentioned probably live in a city with many apartment buildings, so it would be really hard to find a spot where a car could get significant sunlight. When I read the first half of your comment, I thought it was against solar panels on cars. Certainly this will not help you if you want an alternative to not installing a home charger.
- threeseed 4y ago
  > so it would be really hard to find a spot where a car could get significant sunlight I assume you have a specific city in mind where this is the case. It must be a fascinating place given most of the public is living in perpetual shade.
  - GaggiX 4y ago
    I am part of the 46% of Europeans who live in apartments and my house already barely get any sunlight during the day living at the second floor, the lights are on during the day if I want to see something that is not on a monitor. Cars are not lucky enough to be several meters above the ground to get more sunlight like my house, here in Milan the few places that are not covered by buildings are covered by trees.

andrepd 4y ago

If they live in an apartment in a dense city then EVs aren't the solution anyways: e-bikes and public transport are, not clogging the city with electric SUVs transporting mostly one person at a time.

threeseed 4y ago
So all of Europe, South Korea etc are going to abandon their cars in favour of public transport and e-bikes. And this hasn't happened already because ..
- GaggiX 4y ago
  If you live in an European city you are probably already using the public transportation, plus cities are now full of e-bikes and e-scooters, this was not true until a few years ago, so yes, it is already happening, particularly for the 46% of Europeans you mentioned earlier.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Europe is a $413.50bn car market [1] I am going to take an educated guess that your views do not align with the majority of Europeans. [1] https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/europe
    - xxs 4y ago
      In most of the EU larger cities is next to impossible to go work by car. If the office is outside the city and it has a large parking area - yes, but that's quite unlikely.
      - neuronic 4y ago
        Factually untrue, I live in a very large German city and going to office by car is completely normal. Where are you even getting this obviously false information from? Are you frequenting r/de on reddit or what? However, if we simply reduce the hyperbole "next to impossible" to something like "uneconomic" or "inconvenient" then we are getting closer to the truth. The only exception which MIGHT be somewhat close to impossible is Freiburg which is comparatively restrictive towards cars. Its population consists largely of economically weak students though, so it fits the crowd. Taking the car to commute to the very center of cities is an economically senseless thing to do in large urban areas in Germany unless your commute is from the outside of the city. Public transport and bike infrastrucutre is mostly good enough for most people despite large room for improvement, especially when looking at Netherlands or Denmark for comparison. This is also something that is VASTLY different from American ways of providing mobility, the situation is not comparable at all due to the average commute distances involved which are orders of magnitude higher in the US.
        xxs 4y ago
        I am tempted to reply to that - zero idea where reddit (esp. /r/de) has come from. My experience with Germany, it's one of the most decentralized countries in Europe, going by train is pretty normal (parking near various train stations, outside the city is quite standard as well). "Next to impossible" comes from the traffic and how expensive (along how lacking) the parking in city centers is. I have lived in 4 different European counties and visited almost all of them. Germany wise (not lived) - I'd not consider Frankfurt, Berlin, Stuttgart or Munich a place I'd like to drive to work every day. Dusseldorf was better, but still. Many EU capitals are pretty much hell just to drive through - I am hard pressed to say, "yay this one was ok". Most of the larger cities are just not designed to the amount of cars there are - the roads are relatively narrow too. (Also the parallels to the US are funny - I have lived all my life in Europe, visited the USA but that's all)
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
big proponent of ebikes, they are sold in millioms and are making a bigfer difference than electric trucs, cars and planes at this point. It's less of an opportunity to make money, so its not talked about as much. Hyper ~ money mwking opportunity. if it improves your life, but isn't a money opportunity, thete is no hype.

steveBK123 4y ago

If you live in an urban dense environment like South Korea or Western European city, what wide-open, unobstructed, no-shadow&shade parking lots are you parking your car in? It's like sure, in Manhattan no one has a charger at home and most people live in rentals.. but also the cars are all parked underground or street parked on shaded side streets, so....

phicoh 4y ago
The Netherlands has a lot of parking next to the curb. So you can't install a private charger. Houses are often low enough that there will be sun on the car for quite a big part of the day.
threeseed 4y ago
I assume you haven't actually been to these cities. Because it's not like the entire city is a massive Shinjuku with ultra-high density and no sunlit spaces. It is mostly open places e.g. parks, regular housing, office zones etc with concentrations of apartments in select areas. And it doesn't address the point that 1/3 of Europe rents and can't just add solar panels.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  I have been to many of these cities, and I am thinking in percentage of consumers not percentage of land. Given the density of the dense areas, a quite large percentage of people live in these areas. Beyond that.. Yes Tokyo is a big sprawling city with lots of low-rise neighborhoods. However it's not like Tokyo really has street parking there either. Most of these cars are going to be underground. You need a permit in many areas of Japan certifying you have off-street parking for any car you purchase. So again, Tokyo is not like NYC where people just street park cars all over the place. That's why people complain about the urban character of US vs W Europe/Japan/etc.. most of those places don't have the "car culture" of America. You don't even need to add solar panels. Just being within 50ft of a 110V outlet one night a week is going to get you as much charge as these solar roof pipe dreams. There's a reason basically none of these have gone to market and the startups proposing them are either bankrupt or on the verge of it..

GaggiX 4y ago

The 46% and 63% you mentioned probably live in a city with many apartment buildings, so it would be really hard to find a spot where a car could get significant sunlight. When I read the first half of your comment, I thought it was against solar panels on cars. Certainly this will not help you if you want an alternative to not installing a home charger.

threeseed 4y ago
> so it would be really hard to find a spot where a car could get significant sunlight I assume you have a specific city in mind where this is the case. It must be a fascinating place given most of the public is living in perpetual shade.
- GaggiX 4y ago
  I am part of the 46% of Europeans who live in apartments and my house already barely get any sunlight during the day living at the second floor, the lights are on during the day if I want to see something that is not on a monitor. Cars are not lucky enough to be several meters above the ground to get more sunlight like my house, here in Milan the few places that are not covered by buildings are covered by trees.