4 ms·

Nothing says "challenging the status quo" like a multi-millionaire messing with normal people who are just trying to do their job... I'm sure I when I first re

by jsnell 4y ago

Nothing says "challenging the status quo" like a multi-millionaire messing with normal people who are just trying to do their job... I'm sure I when I first read this story, I thought it was hilarious. But since then, I've gained at least little bit of empathy. Think of this story from the perspective of the other people. Woz is being a total piece of shit, wasting their time being intentionally as suspicious as possible, just to waste their time and then pull off a "a-ha, this is actually some really obscure legal tender that I as a rich guy can afford to spend to have a cool story to tell about showing up a casino security guy".

nouveaux 4y ago
The reason why it used to be celebrated on HN, and why GP laments the change is that Woz hacked security. This is a great example of social engineering and it's in the vein of the old 80's hacker mentality. Besides for the fun story, it is a security breach that all these security personnel failed to pick up on. I agree with the GP that this kind of thing should be celebrated on HN and we should encourage the next generation to continue hacking.
- jsnell 4y ago
  I don't think any security breach was demonstrated here. Now, Woz was obviously an amazing hacker back in the day and has a reputation of being a good person. So one would imagine there are stories that show him being really clever that are, you know, actually clever rather than just showing off an information asymmetry about trivia (re: these sheets of $2 bills). Where the punchline is something wholesome, rather than him humiliating strangers who have done literally nothing wrong.
  - posterboy 4y ago
    > him humiliating strangers who have done literally nothing wrong. Seems to be an opportunity if good faith predicts that they won't do him any serious wrong.
  - enedil 4y ago
    I don't get how you inferred anybody was humiliated there.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      No deep inferrence needed. The entire discussion with the security guy is about toying with him, eventually he tricks the guy, "scores a point" and is ever so pleased at himself: > But I had got a big point on him and I was quite satisfied in that Like, I can sort of understand the humor value of giving away $2 bills as a tip since they're rare and some people don't know about it. But there is literally no value in baiting people as to whether this is legit money or counterfeit, except for Woz to feel superior to them. And it's not an isolated occurence! He clearly does this all the time, so often that he has multiple variants of the script. This is not a story to celebrate. It is not challenging the status quo, it is not rebelling against authority, it is not a smart hack, or whatever y'all are describing it as. It is an ugly story of a man with a lot of wealth punching down, playing games using the little people as a prop purely for his own amusement, repeatedly, and then bragging about it.
      - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
        "Baiting" the security guy has only as much weight as his unnecessary investigation. They knew the bills were fine but he came to investigate anyway and he didn't just ask "Hey, how'd ya get those bills?" but tried to be sneaky. He was also salaried and got paid for the interaction so he wasn't a victim in the slightest, except perhaps to his ego. The nasty act here, and possibly criminal, was the security guy calling the Secret Service and reporting on someone he knew wasn't actually guilty of anything. > It is an ugly story ... Of tedious security people inflating themselves by bothering normal people. > it's not an isolated occurence! He clearly does this all the time Thankfully, if these people go unchallenged then when they go off it's on a random unsuspecting person. He's prepared and can take it in stride. The mistake was to engage with the SS agent without his lawyer. He pretty clearly wouldn't have been arrested but because he essentially volunteered for this fishing expedition they'll perform it.
        4y ago
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  It’s still celebrated. One of the articles with the most staying power on the HN front page I’ve seen in a while was the “owning an airline” one. While people did debate the ethics of it, the hacking was admired because it was someone not in a position of power hacking an entity that was. It also illuminated a massive security risk which could now be fixed.
  - hyperhopper 4y ago
    And also it uncovered a bit of hidden authoritarian secret anti-citizen secret bits. Something that drastically limits and can be used to oppress people like a nation-wide travel restriction should be public and require due cause. Not a mystical list where one day you realize "wow guess my life is fucked"
JasonFruit 4y ago
> normal people who are just trying to do their job… When it's the Secret Service, that's not "normal people", and their job is to figuratively or literally stomp anyone who doesn't sufficiently respect the immensely powerful people they insulate. Portraying them as regular Joe victim here is nonsense.
- 3pac 4y ago
  Counterpoint: Their job is to protect with the highest professionalism, indeed with their life, a democratically-elected person whose opinions and actions they may personally disagree with or even resent. It is a very honorable position if you ask me.
  - JasonFruit 4y ago
    I don't agree with that framing, but we can agree that they are acting as a projection of the power and privilege of the person they are protecting, and that in acting on that person's behalf, they remove perceived but unlikely potential threats that the average citizen would have to simply tolerate. Even if they're just plain folks in private life, their profession is an expression of power and privilege.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    This just sounds like "thin blue line" rhetoric to me. They are still in a position of power, even over a millionaire.
0x445442 4y ago
This was Woz being Woz. Striking it rich didn’t change him. This very behavior is the reason Apple exists. Respectfully, lighten up.
joshmanders 4y ago
> Woz is being a total piece of shit, wasting their time being intentionally as suspicious as possible, just to waste their time and then pull off a "a-ha You know who's really wasting peoples time? Secret Service and a casino security guard because he tipped with legal tender that they haven't seen before, so they think he's some counterfeiter or something. I'd fuck with authority who was too stupid to realize that $2 bills are very much legal tender.
- boomboomsubban 4y ago
  If you worked someplace handling money and saw a bill with perforated edges, you'd definitely consider it suspicious. That doesn't require someone to be stupid.
  - voxic11 4y ago
    If my entire job was enforcing currency counterfeiting laws then I would probably have to be pretty stupid to think that perforated edges is a strong indicator of counterfeiting.
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Why? Keep in mind that there are numerous people that have tried to pass off their pronted bills, Xeroxed bills, or bills clipped out of the newspaper.
  - RogerL 4y ago
    Not only that, but why does having lower cognitive ability suddenly mean that others have free rein to mock you, make your workplace unpleasant, and so on? People are just trying to do their job and aren't necessarily educated on the intricacies of federal law on currency.
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  I mean, it's not just a 2,its a 2 you see him rip out of a book in front of you. If I had taken that at any of my retail jobs my boss would be on my ass, even if I knew it was legit. You think the casino owner really wants security making judgment calls about whether a dudes custom made book of perforated money is legal tender or not?

by jsnell 4y ago

nouveaux 4y ago

The reason why it used to be celebrated on HN, and why GP laments the change is that Woz hacked security. This is a great example of social engineering and it's in the vein of the old 80's hacker mentality. Besides for the fun story, it is a security breach that all these security personnel failed to pick up on. I agree with the GP that this kind of thing should be celebrated on HN and we should encourage the next generation to continue hacking.

jsnell 4y ago
I don't think any security breach was demonstrated here. Now, Woz was obviously an amazing hacker back in the day and has a reputation of being a good person. So one would imagine there are stories that show him being really clever that are, you know, actually clever rather than just showing off an information asymmetry about trivia (re: these sheets of $2 bills). Where the punchline is something wholesome, rather than him humiliating strangers who have done literally nothing wrong.
- posterboy 4y ago
  > him humiliating strangers who have done literally nothing wrong. Seems to be an opportunity if good faith predicts that they won't do him any serious wrong.
- enedil 4y ago
  I don't get how you inferred anybody was humiliated there.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    No deep inferrence needed. The entire discussion with the security guy is about toying with him, eventually he tricks the guy, "scores a point" and is ever so pleased at himself: > But I had got a big point on him and I was quite satisfied in that Like, I can sort of understand the humor value of giving away $2 bills as a tip since they're rare and some people don't know about it. But there is literally no value in baiting people as to whether this is legit money or counterfeit, except for Woz to feel superior to them. And it's not an isolated occurence! He clearly does this all the time, so often that he has multiple variants of the script. This is not a story to celebrate. It is not challenging the status quo, it is not rebelling against authority, it is not a smart hack, or whatever y'all are describing it as. It is an ugly story of a man with a lot of wealth punching down, playing games using the little people as a prop purely for his own amusement, repeatedly, and then bragging about it.
    - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
      "Baiting" the security guy has only as much weight as his unnecessary investigation. They knew the bills were fine but he came to investigate anyway and he didn't just ask "Hey, how'd ya get those bills?" but tried to be sneaky. He was also salaried and got paid for the interaction so he wasn't a victim in the slightest, except perhaps to his ego. The nasty act here, and possibly criminal, was the security guy calling the Secret Service and reporting on someone he knew wasn't actually guilty of anything. > It is an ugly story ... Of tedious security people inflating themselves by bothering normal people. > it's not an isolated occurence! He clearly does this all the time Thankfully, if these people go unchallenged then when they go off it's on a random unsuspecting person. He's prepared and can take it in stride. The mistake was to engage with the SS agent without his lawyer. He pretty clearly wouldn't have been arrested but because he essentially volunteered for this fishing expedition they'll perform it.
      - 4y ago
rhaway84773 4y ago
It’s still celebrated. One of the articles with the most staying power on the HN front page I’ve seen in a while was the “owning an airline” one. While people did debate the ethics of it, the hacking was admired because it was someone not in a position of power hacking an entity that was. It also illuminated a massive security risk which could now be fixed.
- hyperhopper 4y ago
  And also it uncovered a bit of hidden authoritarian secret anti-citizen secret bits. Something that drastically limits and can be used to oppress people like a nation-wide travel restriction should be public and require due cause. Not a mystical list where one day you realize "wow guess my life is fucked"

JasonFruit 4y ago

> normal people who are just trying to do their job… When it's the Secret Service, that's not "normal people", and their job is to figuratively or literally stomp anyone who doesn't sufficiently respect the immensely powerful people they insulate. Portraying them as regular Joe victim here is nonsense.

3pac 4y ago
Counterpoint: Their job is to protect with the highest professionalism, indeed with their life, a democratically-elected person whose opinions and actions they may personally disagree with or even resent. It is a very honorable position if you ask me.
- JasonFruit 4y ago
  I don't agree with that framing, but we can agree that they are acting as a projection of the power and privilege of the person they are protecting, and that in acting on that person's behalf, they remove perceived but unlikely potential threats that the average citizen would have to simply tolerate. Even if they're just plain folks in private life, their profession is an expression of power and privilege.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  This just sounds like "thin blue line" rhetoric to me. They are still in a position of power, even over a millionaire.

0x445442 4y ago

This was Woz being Woz. Striking it rich didn’t change him. This very behavior is the reason Apple exists. Respectfully, lighten up.

joshmanders 4y ago

> Woz is being a total piece of shit, wasting their time being intentionally as suspicious as possible, just to waste their time and then pull off a "a-ha You know who's really wasting peoples time? Secret Service and a casino security guard because he tipped with legal tender that they haven't seen before, so they think he's some counterfeiter or something. I'd fuck with authority who was too stupid to realize that $2 bills are very much legal tender.

boomboomsubban 4y ago
If you worked someplace handling money and saw a bill with perforated edges, you'd definitely consider it suspicious. That doesn't require someone to be stupid.
- voxic11 4y ago
  If my entire job was enforcing currency counterfeiting laws then I would probably have to be pretty stupid to think that perforated edges is a strong indicator of counterfeiting.
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Why? Keep in mind that there are numerous people that have tried to pass off their pronted bills, Xeroxed bills, or bills clipped out of the newspaper.
- RogerL 4y ago
  Not only that, but why does having lower cognitive ability suddenly mean that others have free rein to mock you, make your workplace unpleasant, and so on? People are just trying to do their job and aren't necessarily educated on the intricacies of federal law on currency.
thatguy0900 4y ago
I mean, it's not just a 2,its a 2 you see him rip out of a book in front of you. If I had taken that at any of my retail jobs my boss would be on my ass, even if I knew it was legit. You think the casino owner really wants security making judgment calls about whether a dudes custom made book of perforated money is legal tender or not?