4 ms·

Let’s try an era where the industry is dominated by the tech worker class

by crmd 4y ago

xwdv 4y ago
Why stop at the industry?
forgetfreeman 4y ago
You mean the kind of people that fight the same holy wars every 5 years because the industry is allergic to taking cues from people with actual experience?
- andrew_ 4y ago
  Everything old is new again
- mixedCase 4y ago
  There's bad apples across the experience spectrum. I'll take the young kids rediscovering relational databases for the Nth time rather than the dinosaurs that keep us enslaved to C-like languages and ancient practices. For goodness' sake it took well over 4 decades for proper algebraic data types to start appearing in everyday languages! Is it too much to ask to get to use dependent types in a routine setting before I drop dead?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    Your display of form-over-function language pedantry is a brilliant example of one of the more obnoxious wastes of time and energy that plague the industry
alephnerd 4y ago
This era is absolutely dominated by the tech worker class. The people my age who became tech workers (like me) would have become IBs in the 2000s, lawyers in the 90s, or relationship bankers in the 80s. Look at how many people my age with money completely gentrified NoMA in DC, Park Slopes in Brooklyn, large tracts of Mission in SF, priced out Gays from the Leather District in SF, CapHill in Seattle, made Austin uncool, etc.
- crmd 4y ago
  In the past year, Google announced both a 70 billion dollar stock buyback program and the layoff of 12,000 workers. This would not happen in an era where workers have a seat at the table, let alone an era where workers dominate the industry.
  - bilbo0s 4y ago
    I think HN User Alephnerd's material point is that, to society, submitting to the tyranny of tech workers can feel just as bad as submitting to the tyranny of the capital élites. Probably a lot of non tech people in society would prefer submitting to the capital élites to submitting to the tech workers. I mean just from a numbers perspective, there are fewer of them. So if every person who has power becomes a douchebag sooner or later? Then, and I'm just thinking out loud here, but you probably want as few of them as possible. Just trying to view things from the perspective of the, sort of, non tech, non "HN user" person out in flyover country.
    - alephnerd 4y ago
      100% this. And it's happening among my generation. There's a reason why words like "Tech Bro" are common parlance now. Also, us techies have 100% become the capital elite now. We all work jobs that can afford us a full 401k contribution yearly plus the ability until a couple months ago to pull massive FHA loans at near 0% to buy a house. New grad SWE positions are paying around 100-110k a year for around 20-30hrs/week of work, while new grad accounting, nursing, IB, govt work (GS-7), teaching, and other "middle class jobs" are pulling in 60-90k a year for 40-60 hours a week of work. There is an EXTREME amount of resentment against Techies for that reason. We all love to bitch and moan about our gilded cage, but at the end of the day, our lives are fucking amazing compared to the rest of Americans. Being in the top 5% doesn't necessarily make you adjacent to the rest of society.
      - cudgy 4y ago
        > New grad SWE positions are paying around 100-110k a year for around 20-30hrs/week of work This was true 20 years ago during dot com boom, so not much has improved. Select FAANG workers over the past decade living in San Fran are making the big salaries, but the cost and quality of living is a huge tradeoff.
Existenceblinks 4y ago
Sounds pretty bad to me given tech stack most companies have adopted so far. CTO or technical leads are pretty much incompetent. We seem to give up engineering metrics to "hiring pool" or hype or fad or big guys do it or whatever non-sense-ish.
LastTrain 4y ago
I’m pretty old and got into this line of work because I loved it and expected to earn a decent living but nothing more. I am embarrassed by what we in this industry get paid versus other professions. This industry dominates others in terms of capital and influence and is itself dominated by what you call the tech “working class”

Let’s try an era where the industry is dominated by the tech worker class

by crmd 4y ago

Let’s try an era where the industry is dominated by the tech worker class

xwdv 4y ago

Why stop at the industry?

forgetfreeman 4y ago

You mean the kind of people that fight the same holy wars every 5 years because the industry is allergic to taking cues from people with actual experience?

andrew_ 4y ago
Everything old is new again
mixedCase 4y ago
There's bad apples across the experience spectrum. I'll take the young kids rediscovering relational databases for the Nth time rather than the dinosaurs that keep us enslaved to C-like languages and ancient practices. For goodness' sake it took well over 4 decades for proper algebraic data types to start appearing in everyday languages! Is it too much to ask to get to use dependent types in a routine setting before I drop dead?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  Your display of form-over-function language pedantry is a brilliant example of one of the more obnoxious wastes of time and energy that plague the industry

alephnerd 4y ago

This era is absolutely dominated by the tech worker class. The people my age who became tech workers (like me) would have become IBs in the 2000s, lawyers in the 90s, or relationship bankers in the 80s. Look at how many people my age with money completely gentrified NoMA in DC, Park Slopes in Brooklyn, large tracts of Mission in SF, priced out Gays from the Leather District in SF, CapHill in Seattle, made Austin uncool, etc.

crmd 4y ago
In the past year, Google announced both a 70 billion dollar stock buyback program and the layoff of 12,000 workers. This would not happen in an era where workers have a seat at the table, let alone an era where workers dominate the industry.
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  I think HN User Alephnerd's material point is that, to society, submitting to the tyranny of tech workers can feel just as bad as submitting to the tyranny of the capital élites. Probably a lot of non tech people in society would prefer submitting to the capital élites to submitting to the tech workers. I mean just from a numbers perspective, there are fewer of them. So if every person who has power becomes a douchebag sooner or later? Then, and I'm just thinking out loud here, but you probably want as few of them as possible. Just trying to view things from the perspective of the, sort of, non tech, non "HN user" person out in flyover country.
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    100% this. And it's happening among my generation. There's a reason why words like "Tech Bro" are common parlance now. Also, us techies have 100% become the capital elite now. We all work jobs that can afford us a full 401k contribution yearly plus the ability until a couple months ago to pull massive FHA loans at near 0% to buy a house. New grad SWE positions are paying around 100-110k a year for around 20-30hrs/week of work, while new grad accounting, nursing, IB, govt work (GS-7), teaching, and other "middle class jobs" are pulling in 60-90k a year for 40-60 hours a week of work. There is an EXTREME amount of resentment against Techies for that reason. We all love to bitch and moan about our gilded cage, but at the end of the day, our lives are fucking amazing compared to the rest of Americans. Being in the top 5% doesn't necessarily make you adjacent to the rest of society.
    - cudgy 4y ago
      > New grad SWE positions are paying around 100-110k a year for around 20-30hrs/week of work This was true 20 years ago during dot com boom, so not much has improved. Select FAANG workers over the past decade living in San Fran are making the big salaries, but the cost and quality of living is a huge tradeoff.

Existenceblinks 4y ago

Sounds pretty bad to me given tech stack most companies have adopted so far. CTO or technical leads are pretty much incompetent. We seem to give up engineering metrics to "hiring pool" or hype or fad or big guys do it or whatever non-sense-ish.

LastTrain 4y ago

I’m pretty old and got into this line of work because I loved it and expected to earn a decent living but nothing more. I am embarrassed by what we in this industry get paid versus other professions. This industry dominates others in terms of capital and influence and is itself dominated by what you call the tech “working class”