4 ms·

Yeah, my reaction was -- after he read you your miranda rights, why were you even talking to him without a lawyer? But after thinking about it more -- and I'm

Yeah, my reaction was -- after he read you your miranda rights, why were you even talking to him without a lawyer? But after thinking about it more -- and I'm in my mid-40s -- I think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable -- to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor. But I think maybe the police (whether local or national security) have actually maybe gotten a lot more intense in the past 30 years. Possibly actually more intense for everyone. The risks of "messing with" security personel, at least for middle-class-appearing white guys, was very definitely a lot less back then.

scarface74 4y ago
> think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable No, it just use to be a lot less recorded… And no minority with a sense of history would say that police have ever been “reasonable”
- jrochkind1 4y ago
  So in my comment that was only like five sentances, one of them was "to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor", right? I'm curious if you are old enough to remember the 80s, although I'm not going to bet any precious precious donuts about it. How state violence and repression was in the 80s isn't good enough, agreed. But things actually do change, get better and worse in different dimensions. If we insist that things have always been exactly as they are, then it seems fatalistic, they can't possibly change, this is the way it's always been and always will be. But things do change. If they were better in some ways 30 years ago, then this isn't inevitable. Woz was a prankster, including against those in authority. Look up some of the pranks the MIT "hackers" pulled back in the day. Today, some of them would probably get you arrested on domestic terrorism charges. This is not an improvement, even if it's true that the police of course have always been brutal in some times and places, especially depending on social position of the victims. But nobody (I hope) is looking for equality of brutal discipline, equally oppressive to all.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes, I was born in 1974 hence the username. I also grew up in the south and heard plenty of first hand accounts from my grandparents and my still living Black parents. And as it was revealed last week in Memphis, I don’t anymore breathe a sign of relief when I see a Black cop than when I see a White cop.
Volundr 4y ago
There might be some truth to this, but I suspect a lot of this perception has more to do with the dramatic increase in recording equipment in the general public. Given how often police officers get away with pretty clear cut abuse even when there is video, it's not hard to imagine the majority of this behavior was getting swept under the rug.
htag 4y ago
< The risks of "messing with" security personel, at least for middle-class-appearing white guys, was very definitely a lot less back then. I don't think this jives with your comment that law enforcement use to be reasonable. I think this highlights unequal enforcement of the law, depending on who is considered undesirable.

scarface74 4y ago

> think what it also reminds us of is that law enforcement actually used to be a lot more reasonable No, it just use to be a lot less recorded… And no minority with a sense of history would say that police have ever been “reasonable”

jrochkind1 4y ago
So in my comment that was only like five sentances, one of them was "to be clear, this may probably only apply to white people who appear as if they are not poor", right? I'm curious if you are old enough to remember the 80s, although I'm not going to bet any precious precious donuts about it. How state violence and repression was in the 80s isn't good enough, agreed. But things actually do change, get better and worse in different dimensions. If we insist that things have always been exactly as they are, then it seems fatalistic, they can't possibly change, this is the way it's always been and always will be. But things do change. If they were better in some ways 30 years ago, then this isn't inevitable. Woz was a prankster, including against those in authority. Look up some of the pranks the MIT "hackers" pulled back in the day. Today, some of them would probably get you arrested on domestic terrorism charges. This is not an improvement, even if it's true that the police of course have always been brutal in some times and places, especially depending on social position of the victims. But nobody (I hope) is looking for equality of brutal discipline, equally oppressive to all.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes, I was born in 1974 hence the username. I also grew up in the south and heard plenty of first hand accounts from my grandparents and my still living Black parents. And as it was revealed last week in Memphis, I don’t anymore breathe a sign of relief when I see a Black cop than when I see a White cop.

Volundr 4y ago

There might be some truth to this, but I suspect a lot of this perception has more to do with the dramatic increase in recording equipment in the general public. Given how often police officers get away with pretty clear cut abuse even when there is video, it's not hard to imagine the majority of this behavior was getting swept under the rug.

htag 4y ago

< The risks of "messing with" security personel, at least for middle-class-appearing white guys, was very definitely a lot less back then. I don't think this jives with your comment that law enforcement use to be reasonable. I think this highlights unequal enforcement of the law, depending on who is considered undesirable.