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Maybe it’s my nordic background where people value independence (perhaps patholohically so). In general if a husband had any moderately dangerous hobbies it wou

by fsloth 4y ago

Maybe it’s my nordic background where people value independence (perhaps patholohically so). In general if a husband had any moderately dangerous hobbies it would sound a bit weird where I’m from that they stopped them just because they got married and had kids. And if they had apprehended Woz he would probably had a lawyer to bail him out and smooth things over. So coming from these two directions the argument that fooling around was somehow traitorous behaviour towards his wife sounded really odd.

NikolaNovak 4y ago
Right. I just don't know if "giving a fake Id to secret service " counts As a"pre-existing hobby" :-)
- fsloth 4y ago
  It’s Woz, I think it counts :)
ericmay 4y ago
In American marriages and maybe this is a general Anglosphere cultural tradition you’re expected to provide and sacrifice if need be for your family (including spouse/kids). So if you had a hobby of, idk, drag racing cars it might be expected you give that up in some marriages, though certainly not all. Also if you have a child your hobby can wind up leaving your spouse with sole child responsibilities which typically falls on the mother. So you wind up with a father who works and then does their hobby, and you end up with a mom that also works and their hobby becomes raising a child. This can cut both ways or course. I think I was listening to a world-famous rock climber who had toned down their extreme sports adventures (toned down for them) because they didn’t want to die and leave their spouse and child without a father over the pursuit of a hobby. So it’s a maturity thing too.
- fsloth 4y ago
  Most definetly, maturity and actual level of danger. I don’t think anything Woz has done is moderately dangerous. If they wanted to lock him up I’m sure he could call to a competent lawyer and state he is a respectable citizen who co-founded the friggin Apple. Woz has an extremely long history of egging people of authority and I don’t think he’s ever been to court from those escapades (please correct me if I’m wrong).
  - hnfong 4y ago
    Maybe you're right that his actual risk is non-existent because some people are more equal than others. I would hope we're not in such a world though.
    - fsloth 4y ago
      This was not as much about privilege than about Woz having a life long experience of trying to bend conventions and rules and probably had a good intuition how far he could goof off given his social and financial status etc.
      - hnfong 4y ago
        Doubtful. You only need to make one mistake to throw your life off track when it comes to playing on the edges of the legal system. You don't know how "close" you're getting until you get a conviction.
alephnerd 4y ago
You guys only value independence for Western Europeans. Alligevel vedtager I en "Ghettopakke", der lovligt legaliserede at splitte migrantfamilier fra hinanden. I er lige så dårlige som resten af andre hvide mennesker, jeg har mødt. [0] - https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/4895/Denmark:-Ghetto-Package-is-discriminatory,-unnecessarily-punitive-and-counterproductive https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/4895/Denmark:-Ghetto-P... [1] - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/10/un-human-rights-experts-urge-denmark-halt-contentious-sale-ghetto-buildings https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/10/un-human-rig...
- fsloth 4y ago
  I'm not sure why you are venting, but if you are having a hard time in your life I'm sorry you are going through that. Now, our discussion was about Woz's zany antics, but I still have to clarify some geographical things: 1. Western Europe[0] and nordics[1] are two disjoint sets of countries 2. Of 28M nordic people only roughly 1/5 is Danish. And, there is very little political cohesion between the countries, except by national parliaments copying established successfull schemes from each other when it suits them individually Personally, I am a Finn and had to google translate the bit of Danish in your message - I don't really follow Danish politics but I don't think it's fair to think every Dane would support this bill. This is actually the first time I read about this. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_E... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries
  - alephnerd 4y ago
    Yea. It was moment of venting tbh. I just get pissed off when a handful of commentators from Scandinavia act "holier than thou" when there is still some real racism and toxic commentary around migrants. With a mom who's "Mirpuri" (the actual term is Pahari or Dogra. Mirpuri means from Mirpur Tehsil in AJK) background. I've heard down the grapevine how much it sucks for the community in DK and NO.
    - fsloth 4y ago
cactusplant7374 4y ago
> And if they had apprehended Woz he would probably had a lawyer to bail him out and smooth things over. One can have a good lawyer but that lawyer cannot change the facts of the case.
- lupire 4y ago
  So? Law is about men's rea and judge-ment, not mere facts.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- drdec 4y ago
  A lawyer can help you decide which facts to reveal and which to withhold. A good lawyer will prevent you from making the state's case for them.
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    Facts in my comment refer to the information the prosecutor has at their disposal.
    - drdec 4y ago
      I thought the context of this discussion was concerning an interview with law enforcement, in this case the Secret Service.

by fsloth 4y ago

NikolaNovak 4y ago

Right. I just don't know if "giving a fake Id to secret service " counts As a"pre-existing hobby" :-)

fsloth 4y ago
It’s Woz, I think it counts :)

ericmay 4y ago

In American marriages and maybe this is a general Anglosphere cultural tradition you’re expected to provide and sacrifice if need be for your family (including spouse/kids). So if you had a hobby of, idk, drag racing cars it might be expected you give that up in some marriages, though certainly not all. Also if you have a child your hobby can wind up leaving your spouse with sole child responsibilities which typically falls on the mother. So you wind up with a father who works and then does their hobby, and you end up with a mom that also works and their hobby becomes raising a child. This can cut both ways or course. I think I was listening to a world-famous rock climber who had toned down their extreme sports adventures (toned down for them) because they didn’t want to die and leave their spouse and child without a father over the pursuit of a hobby. So it’s a maturity thing too.

fsloth 4y ago
Most definetly, maturity and actual level of danger. I don’t think anything Woz has done is moderately dangerous. If they wanted to lock him up I’m sure he could call to a competent lawyer and state he is a respectable citizen who co-founded the friggin Apple. Woz has an extremely long history of egging people of authority and I don’t think he’s ever been to court from those escapades (please correct me if I’m wrong).
- hnfong 4y ago
  Maybe you're right that his actual risk is non-existent because some people are more equal than others. I would hope we're not in such a world though.
  - fsloth 4y ago
    This was not as much about privilege than about Woz having a life long experience of trying to bend conventions and rules and probably had a good intuition how far he could goof off given his social and financial status etc.
    - hnfong 4y ago
      Doubtful. You only need to make one mistake to throw your life off track when it comes to playing on the edges of the legal system. You don't know how "close" you're getting until you get a conviction.

alephnerd 4y ago

You guys only value independence for Western Europeans. Alligevel vedtager I en "Ghettopakke", der lovligt legaliserede at splitte migrantfamilier fra hinanden. I er lige så dårlige som resten af andre hvide mennesker, jeg har mødt. [0] - https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/4895/Denmark:-Ghetto-Package-is-discriminatory,-unnecessarily-punitive-and-counterproductive https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/4895/Denmark:-Ghetto-P... [1] - https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/10/un-human-rights-experts-urge-denmark-halt-contentious-sale-ghetto-buildings https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2020/10/un-human-rig...

fsloth 4y ago
I'm not sure why you are venting, but if you are having a hard time in your life I'm sorry you are going through that. Now, our discussion was about Woz's zany antics, but I still have to clarify some geographical things: 1. Western Europe[0] and nordics[1] are two disjoint sets of countries 2. Of 28M nordic people only roughly 1/5 is Danish. And, there is very little political cohesion between the countries, except by national parliaments copying established successfull schemes from each other when it suits them individually Personally, I am a Finn and had to google translate the bit of Danish in your message - I don't really follow Danish politics but I don't think it's fair to think every Dane would support this bill. This is actually the first time I read about this. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_geoscheme_for_E... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_countries
- alephnerd 4y ago
  Yea. It was moment of venting tbh. I just get pissed off when a handful of commentators from Scandinavia act "holier than thou" when there is still some real racism and toxic commentary around migrants. With a mom who's "Mirpuri" (the actual term is Pahari or Dogra. Mirpuri means from Mirpur Tehsil in AJK) background. I've heard down the grapevine how much it sucks for the community in DK and NO.
  - fsloth 4y ago

cactusplant7374 4y ago

> And if they had apprehended Woz he would probably had a lawyer to bail him out and smooth things over. One can have a good lawyer but that lawyer cannot change the facts of the case.

lupire 4y ago
So? Law is about men's rea and judge-ment, not mere facts.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
drdec 4y ago
A lawyer can help you decide which facts to reveal and which to withhold. A good lawyer will prevent you from making the state's case for them.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  Facts in my comment refer to the information the prosecutor has at their disposal.
  - drdec 4y ago
    I thought the context of this discussion was concerning an interview with law enforcement, in this case the Secret Service.