4 ms·

> maybe it is complex and natural It isn't though. We see these people buying news outlets, bribing politicians, outright owning politicians, owning judges, a

> maybe it is complex and natural It isn't though. We see these people buying news outlets, bribing politicians, outright owning politicians, owning judges, attacking organizations that protect the environment or help reduce inequality. We see them getting away with rape and murder. We see them creating and exploiting tax loopholes. We see them running monopolies and then bribing institutions that were supposed to hold them accountable in full sight. I'm glad you're alright Jack. That's super for you that your company is run well - though I bet if you named the company, we could all point to some skeletons. Even so - best to peek outside your bubble before defending the class that's been waging war on the planet. That billionaire you're defending probably pays a lower tax rate than you do. That's because his class paid to make things that way, with concerted effort, over years. Not much natural about it.

ip26 4y ago
Some degree of inequality is. You’re talking about gross inequality. The whole capitalist system requires the existence of some inequality; you are incentivized to work hard to better your lot. If your lot is not allowed to get better (perfect equality), why bother?
- Rury 4y ago
  I don't follow this reasoning. Your lot can get better with perfect equality, the benefit/effort ratio is just different than a system with inequality. The real problem is it's just easier to benefit at the cost of your neighbor, and hence people prefer inequality when it benefits them.
simonh 4y ago
I don't care about class, I care about individual people. If you're going to advocate punishing a class because of the actions of a few individuals you happen to categorise them with, I'm out. I see banks fined billions for money laundering, VW execs going to jail for fraudulent emissions cheating, an investment banker and his girlfriend going to jail for sex trafficking, a bunch of EU politicians being rounded up for corruption. Is the system perfect? No, but I don't expect any system to be. How are you going to make sure the system you want is immune from human faults. What's the secret? The billionaire I was talking about Mo Ibrahim. He wrote a program for planning cellular radio networks and built a company around it starting from his dining room called MSI, which is where I worked for him. He then went on to found Celtel. He saw what was happening in Europe and realised that cellular radio could be a transformative technology, that could help Africa jump forward technically much more cheaply than traditional wired telecoms of the time. He runs a charity focused on promoting responsible leadership and democratic values in Africa. Genuinely one of the nicest guys I have ever met, and if you gave me a billion pounds and said I could give it to a government bureaucracy or Mo Inrahim, I'd give it to Mo. I trust him to know how it could do the most good, whether that's helping people in need, or building companies that employ people and provide valuable services, or develop great technology the world needs.

ip26 4y ago

Some degree of inequality is. You’re talking about gross inequality. The whole capitalist system requires the existence of some inequality; you are incentivized to work hard to better your lot. If your lot is not allowed to get better (perfect equality), why bother?

Rury 4y ago
I don't follow this reasoning. Your lot can get better with perfect equality, the benefit/effort ratio is just different than a system with inequality. The real problem is it's just easier to benefit at the cost of your neighbor, and hence people prefer inequality when it benefits them.

simonh 4y ago

I don't care about class, I care about individual people. If you're going to advocate punishing a class because of the actions of a few individuals you happen to categorise them with, I'm out. I see banks fined billions for money laundering, VW execs going to jail for fraudulent emissions cheating, an investment banker and his girlfriend going to jail for sex trafficking, a bunch of EU politicians being rounded up for corruption. Is the system perfect? No, but I don't expect any system to be. How are you going to make sure the system you want is immune from human faults. What's the secret? The billionaire I was talking about Mo Ibrahim. He wrote a program for planning cellular radio networks and built a company around it starting from his dining room called MSI, which is where I worked for him. He then went on to found Celtel. He saw what was happening in Europe and realised that cellular radio could be a transformative technology, that could help Africa jump forward technically much more cheaply than traditional wired telecoms of the time. He runs a charity focused on promoting responsible leadership and democratic values in Africa. Genuinely one of the nicest guys I have ever met, and if you gave me a billion pounds and said I could give it to a government bureaucracy or Mo Inrahim, I'd give it to Mo. I trust him to know how it could do the most good, whether that's helping people in need, or building companies that employ people and provide valuable services, or develop great technology the world needs.