4 ms·

You can’t understand the UK’s political mess without looking at how regions and cities have basically no power and how it is one of the most centralised countri

You can’t understand the UK’s political mess without looking at how regions and cities have basically no power and how it is one of the most centralised countries in the world (exc. Scotland because of Devolution). In some parts of the country like we have 3 or 4 tiers of local government (parish council, borough council, county council, regional elected mayor) whose powers effectively are to regulate building work, run social care (mostly outsourced), and collect waste (mostly outsourced). They don’t even have power for running public transport except in a few areas like London and Greater Manchester. As a result, local politicians are of low calibre as there is no real benefit to being a local politician - decisions are made nationally and so As an example of how little control local areas have compared to other countries, local government in the U.K. in general: * Can’t set the amount for annual property taxes (other than small percentage increases) * Set and collect property taxes on sales * Run public utilities like water or sewage * Tell public transport operators that they must run along certain routes or regulate fares or run public transport themselves (legacy of Thatcher in the 80s deregulating buses) * Regulate taxi drivers in their own areas (any taxi driver can register anywhere in the country and some areas have lower standards) * Regulate roadworks along major roads which are within their boundaries (only smaller roads) * Schools in their areas are now independent “academy trusts” and are regulated nationally. * Commission and run healthcare in their area which is run by different organisations (most areas have two NHS trusts covering them - one for Acute care and one for Mental Health), even though this links in heavily with the social care they do have to provide.

mihaaly 4y ago
Centralised, but also split up into disfunctioning parts with own rules and procedures, no centralization in many practical matters (own traffic, health, housing, etc. rules, come one!), own parliament and offices here and there randomly with above random excemptions of local vs. central roles. Scottland even have their own weird bank note system. UK, Great Britain, British Isles, England, Scotland, Wales, this is not a country, this is a random bunch of regions in random composition, different composition in different matters. A big mess, a big mess, with little will to have unity.
- p_l 4y ago
  The bank note issue is because, surprise, bank notes are unregulated and not part of monetary union of UK. So you have 4-5 banks that emit bank notes, and the only money that is actually mandated by law to be respected is coins. (England has an extra law that makes you take Bank of England notes, but it's not a law that covers all of UK).
  - mihaaly 4y ago
    Nice, even the nonregulation can be made more chaotic than it inherently is. :)
    - p_l 4y ago
      Imagine landing in a different country, only to find out that all ATMs and card terminals are dead at the airport (network failure), and the only money you have in your wallet is from one of the scottish banks. Whoever the teller at ABN AMRO at Schiphol that day was, they have my thanks till dying day for taking the scottish notes and exchanging for euro :D
      - mihaaly 4y ago
        Oi! :)
samwillis 4y ago
The borders between administrative areas are also often absurd and in place for historical or political reasons. Where I live is a good example, Stamford in south Lincolnshire. It is part of Lincolnshire but on this tiny little outcrop at the very bottom of the county, surrounded on three side by other counties. Like most town in the UK there is a demand for housing, the only way for the town to grow is into other counties. These other counties then control services, education, and development plans. It results in a situation where there is no plan for how to develop the town, housing developers are getting away with building without having to put into place transport, health or education facilities.
themitigating 4y ago
Ok but what problems does this cause?
- rwmj 4y ago
  The problems in the article for a start. The "levelling up" funds were distributed centrally based on local councils competing with each other. This encourages zero-sum thinking, and the people responsible for the decisions literally know the least. How does someone in Whitehall really know that a particular project 200 miles away is better than another project equally distant from the centre? We know that they didn't know - they allocated a large proportion to London and the South East, and the rest to Tory constituencies.
rr808 4y ago
I live in New Jersey where every little town has its own government, its own taxes, its own police force, its own school system. Its super inefficient and expensive, and heterogeneous. American systems like this are the main driver for inequality as wealthy areas have much better public services. Please dont go this route.
- pjc50 4y ago
  England(+) copied the US system of having too many elected roles with the "Police And Crime Commissioners". They are highly paid, elected on tiny turnouts of 10-20%, get no media coverage, and seemingly do nothing. (+) yes, just England and Wales
- eynsham 4y ago
  Not everything is about the US. The UK has a long tradition of local government, and devolution proposals in circulation don’t blindly ape foreign models, whether from NJ or elsewhere, whatever their overall merits. Obviously there are advantages to centralisation, but even if you’re right that NJ is too decentralised, that has no bearing on whether the UK is instead too centralised.

mihaaly 4y ago

Centralised, but also split up into disfunctioning parts with own rules and procedures, no centralization in many practical matters (own traffic, health, housing, etc. rules, come one!), own parliament and offices here and there randomly with above random excemptions of local vs. central roles. Scottland even have their own weird bank note system. UK, Great Britain, British Isles, England, Scotland, Wales, this is not a country, this is a random bunch of regions in random composition, different composition in different matters. A big mess, a big mess, with little will to have unity.

p_l 4y ago
The bank note issue is because, surprise, bank notes are unregulated and not part of monetary union of UK. So you have 4-5 banks that emit bank notes, and the only money that is actually mandated by law to be respected is coins. (England has an extra law that makes you take Bank of England notes, but it's not a law that covers all of UK).
- mihaaly 4y ago
  Nice, even the nonregulation can be made more chaotic than it inherently is. :)
  - p_l 4y ago
    Imagine landing in a different country, only to find out that all ATMs and card terminals are dead at the airport (network failure), and the only money you have in your wallet is from one of the scottish banks. Whoever the teller at ABN AMRO at Schiphol that day was, they have my thanks till dying day for taking the scottish notes and exchanging for euro :D
    - mihaaly 4y ago
      Oi! :)

samwillis 4y ago

The borders between administrative areas are also often absurd and in place for historical or political reasons. Where I live is a good example, Stamford in south Lincolnshire. It is part of Lincolnshire but on this tiny little outcrop at the very bottom of the county, surrounded on three side by other counties. Like most town in the UK there is a demand for housing, the only way for the town to grow is into other counties. These other counties then control services, education, and development plans. It results in a situation where there is no plan for how to develop the town, housing developers are getting away with building without having to put into place transport, health or education facilities.

themitigating 4y ago

Ok but what problems does this cause?

rwmj 4y ago
The problems in the article for a start. The "levelling up" funds were distributed centrally based on local councils competing with each other. This encourages zero-sum thinking, and the people responsible for the decisions literally know the least. How does someone in Whitehall really know that a particular project 200 miles away is better than another project equally distant from the centre? We know that they didn't know - they allocated a large proportion to London and the South East, and the rest to Tory constituencies.

rr808 4y ago

I live in New Jersey where every little town has its own government, its own taxes, its own police force, its own school system. Its super inefficient and expensive, and heterogeneous. American systems like this are the main driver for inequality as wealthy areas have much better public services. Please dont go this route.

pjc50 4y ago
England(+) copied the US system of having too many elected roles with the "Police And Crime Commissioners". They are highly paid, elected on tiny turnouts of 10-20%, get no media coverage, and seemingly do nothing. (+) yes, just England and Wales
eynsham 4y ago
Not everything is about the US. The UK has a long tradition of local government, and devolution proposals in circulation don’t blindly ape foreign models, whether from NJ or elsewhere, whatever their overall merits. Obviously there are advantages to centralisation, but even if you’re right that NJ is too decentralised, that has no bearing on whether the UK is instead too centralised.