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I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. I've been vaccinated and don't regret that because in those circumstances, they were a positive health choice.

by spaceman_2020 4y ago

I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. I've been vaccinated and don't regret that because in those circumstances, they were a positive health choice. But it's impossible to know the long-term impact of any medicine unless you've actually studied it, well, long-term. In 5 years, the vaccines might be death in a vial. Or they might be completely benign. You'll only know after 5 years.

World177 4y ago
The vaccine is just unrelated to the article. It's about the people who have had Covid-19, not the vaccine.
neuronic 4y ago
Stop spreading these right wing anti-vaxxer lies, my god. "Death in a vial". Dont you feel ashamed and ridiculous posting this insane over-the-top inflammatory rhetoric? People are already discussing the science and long term effects and few people just take the vaccines at face value. And to add to your harmful, conscious spread of disinformation, you thinly veil it in "I am vaccinated myself, but..."
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Way to miss the point. Absolutely hysterical.
  - chimprich 4y ago
    No, "death in a vial" is hysterical nonsense.
  - neuronic 4y ago
    You very clearly wrote what you wrote. It was inflammatory language and you are well aware. Nothing hysterical about it.
hotpotamus 4y ago
I have to say that's a pretty good trick to never have to do anything. Like I should probably take out the trash, but who knows, I might get killed by a car veering off the road while I put it out. Or sure I'd go to the gym, but I might get killed by a weight falling off a machine or something; better not to risk it. I'll probably be using this is in the future.
chimprich 4y ago
> I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. It's because they've been among the most successful medical treatment in history. For example, smallpox alone killed up to half a billion people in the 20th C and we managed to eradicate it. > In 5 years, the vaccines might be death in a vial. Or they might be completely benign. You'll only know after 5 years. This isn't how biology works. You don't just have drugs that set off a timer with a trigger that suddenly kills you 5 years later. If something is doing bad things to you then you start getting adverse effects far sooner than that. We've given billions of doses of these vaccines out. We have an excellent idea of the side-effects they cause, and they're generally extremely safe.
- collyw 4y ago
  How many vaccines have actually been subject to proper long term trials? Sure VAERS is a self reported system, but long term monitoring isn't actually done in any meaningful sense. Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did.The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced. Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy to say so though.
  - chimprich 4y ago
    > The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced. The only human disease we've ever eradicated is smallpox. But semantics aside... Here's a graph of polio cases in the US. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates-in-the-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates... The polio vaccine was introduced in the 50s. Please explain how polio was in "massive decline" before then. > Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did. Whether that's true or not (feel free to provide data), it's irrelevant. Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives. > Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy to say so though. It's not heresy, but it's wrong. You're propagating an idea from the 19th Century. It's not considered correct any longer. It's at best a very simplified view. If it were true, humans would be untroubled by viruses, but clearly that is not the case. Viruses evolve to spread effectively; as long as they spread faster than they kill their victims they continue to spread. Flu regularly comes up with strains that are more dangerous than previous years, the 1918 pandemic being a case in point. Polio didn't become less mild. Lots of other viruses have not.
acdha 4y ago
It’s more that the claims are very confidently and loudly made by the same people who were wrong about the severity and spread of the virus, possible treatments, and made provably false claims about the vaccines, often for financial or political profit. It’s certainly possible that there will be some long-term problem that only becomes apparent after a considerable period of time but there isn’t a known mechanism for that, and if that is identified it’ll be due to the actual scientists who are carefully studying it rather than the people trying the old conman’s trick of making enough vague claims that they’ll be able to say they predicted the future.
sherry-sherry 4y ago
No. Most vaccines do not remain, nor are they detectable in the body after a pretty short period of time (a matter of weeks) > ... you'll only know after 5 years. See above — that is simply not how vaccines work. Stop spreading misinformation.

World177 4y ago

The vaccine is just unrelated to the article. It's about the people who have had Covid-19, not the vaccine.

neuronic 4y ago

Stop spreading these right wing anti-vaxxer lies, my god. "Death in a vial". Dont you feel ashamed and ridiculous posting this insane over-the-top inflammatory rhetoric? People are already discussing the science and long term effects and few people just take the vaccines at face value. And to add to your harmful, conscious spread of disinformation, you thinly veil it in "I am vaccinated myself, but..."

spaceman_2020 4y ago
Way to miss the point. Absolutely hysterical.
- chimprich 4y ago
  No, "death in a vial" is hysterical nonsense.
- neuronic 4y ago
  You very clearly wrote what you wrote. It was inflammatory language and you are well aware. Nothing hysterical about it.

hotpotamus 4y ago

I have to say that's a pretty good trick to never have to do anything. Like I should probably take out the trash, but who knows, I might get killed by a car veering off the road while I put it out. Or sure I'd go to the gym, but I might get killed by a weight falling off a machine or something; better not to risk it. I'll probably be using this is in the future.

chimprich 4y ago

> I don't understand the rush to defend vaccines. It's because they've been among the most successful medical treatment in history. For example, smallpox alone killed up to half a billion people in the 20th C and we managed to eradicate it. > In 5 years, the vaccines might be death in a vial. Or they might be completely benign. You'll only know after 5 years. This isn't how biology works. You don't just have drugs that set off a timer with a trigger that suddenly kills you 5 years later. If something is doing bad things to you then you start getting adverse effects far sooner than that. We've given billions of doses of these vaccines out. We have an excellent idea of the side-effects they cause, and they're generally extremely safe.

collyw 4y ago
How many vaccines have actually been subject to proper long term trials? Sure VAERS is a self reported system, but long term monitoring isn't actually done in any meaningful sense. Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did.The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced. Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy to say so though.
- chimprich 4y ago
  > The diseases that we eradicated were already in massive decline before vaccines were introduced. The only human disease we've ever eradicated is smallpox. But semantics aside... Here's a graph of polio cases in the US. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates-in-the-united-states https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prevalence-of-polio-rates... The polio vaccine was introduced in the 50s. Please explain how polio was in "massive decline" before then. > Hygiene and sewage systems have saved far more than vaccines did. Whether that's true or not (feel free to provide data), it's irrelevant. Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives. > Viruses usually mutate to milder but faster spreading strains. It is heresy to say so though. It's not heresy, but it's wrong. You're propagating an idea from the 19th Century. It's not considered correct any longer. It's at best a very simplified view. If it were true, humans would be untroubled by viruses, but clearly that is not the case. Viruses evolve to spread effectively; as long as they spread faster than they kill their victims they continue to spread. Flu regularly comes up with strains that are more dangerous than previous years, the 1918 pandemic being a case in point. Polio didn't become less mild. Lots of other viruses have not.

acdha 4y ago

It’s more that the claims are very confidently and loudly made by the same people who were wrong about the severity and spread of the virus, possible treatments, and made provably false claims about the vaccines, often for financial or political profit. It’s certainly possible that there will be some long-term problem that only becomes apparent after a considerable period of time but there isn’t a known mechanism for that, and if that is identified it’ll be due to the actual scientists who are carefully studying it rather than the people trying the old conman’s trick of making enough vague claims that they’ll be able to say they predicted the future.

sherry-sherry 4y ago

No. Most vaccines do not remain, nor are they detectable in the body after a pretty short period of time (a matter of weeks) > ... you'll only know after 5 years. See above — that is simply not how vaccines work. Stop spreading misinformation.