9 ms·

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination

I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. If I was rolling out a new vaccine at the national level, this is the first thing I could collect to be able to make conclusions either way. And it's not a complicated thing to collect too. Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger people in last two years. Is that due to covid or due to vaccination? We can't answer this simple enough question because we refuse to collect data. This is directly from my hematologist btw who is an expert in blood clots at a famous hospital. That itself suggests either bias or complacency to me. Would you be against data collection? It's not implying anything.

autoexec 4y ago
> I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. What is your evidence that there is zero data being collected on this? What is your evidence that we refuse to collect this data? I can prove that the issue is being considered along with every other side effect experienced by people taking these vaccines. Research on the subject already exists, how is that possible if no one is collecting data? VAERS continues to collect data on the side effects experienced by people who have taken the vaccine, which is then being evaluated by researchers. What evidence you do you have that this isn't happening?
- nyrulez 4y ago
  1. My doctor(s) (in USA) told me so. They were not aware of any data collection around this and my condition. I did explicitly ask them. 2. Where is this data? If it's being collected, we should be able to see it or clear conclusions from it? It's a very simple data set too. I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media. In research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582622/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582622/ In media: https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/fda-restricts-jjs-covid-19-vaccine-due-to-blood-clot-risk/ https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/fda-restricts-jjs-covid-19-vac... I'll be generous and suggest that your doctor misunderstood your question. VAERS is a nationwide data collection program being used to collect evidence for the adverse effects of these vaccines, including heart problems and blood clots. Your doctor is certainly aware of this program and if they are dealing with covid patients they are most likely involved in collecting and sharing their own observations and data as well. > blood clots became a concern starting in April 2021, when the government put a pause on the J&J shot after six women who received it developed rare blood clots—and one died. All of these cases were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), a national early reporting warning system to detect safety problems with U.S.-licensed vaccines. (https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-...) Data on the problems the vaccines might be causing is continuously being collected and evaluated. Researchers all over the globe are exchanging data on every facet of this novel virus and the new vaccines we've developed. The possible risks of these vaccines are not being ignored and research is not forbidden. If people are telling you otherwise, you might want to ask them to clarity their position or you may want to reevaluate where you've been getting your information.
    - zackees 4y ago
      [dead]
    - locustous 4y ago
      The problem is that if the front line medical staff don't collect the data the existence of collections organizations and publications is effectively irrelevant because they end up totally blind to this potential data. "Blind man reports on sky color" is pretty meaningless. Generously we may call this an oversight that so many in front line medical believe there is no collection method or refuse to use it. Negatively, it provides plausible deniability to high minded academics while the process is intentionally shortcutted at the ground level in a massive fraud and cover up. For myself, I've personally seen this lack of reporting for years, even before COVID, by nurses and doctors at various hospitals. There is a very pervasive attitude of, the vaccines are safe therefore your problem immediately following is total coincidence and we will report nothing. Given it's existence for years and the lack of general training in this regard I can't help but lose trust in the entirety of the system as, at best, extremely dysfunctional.
- nyrulez 4y ago
  I did look at https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html btw. It seems to have great intentions. I have no idea about the level of compliance since it's purely voluntary it seems. I would love to see the data around clots, which btw that page doesn't seem to list as a condition to be reported.
  - arghnoname 4y ago
    As you note, the VAERS database is voluntary and probably misses many conditions that aren't associated with a vaccine when undergoing treatment. I accept that taking medicine, any medicine, imposes risk for adverse events. What's crazy to me is we just underwent widespread inoculation of a brand new type of vaccine technology that has never been used in humans before, meant to inoculate us against a disease that never existed before, and it _feels_ like the powers that be just don't want to ask certain questions. Let's say the vaccine is great, it causes no one harm (this is true if no vaccine, but I pose it for the sake of argument). It would still increase confidence and dispel paranoia if it and its possible harms were studied in a much more direct way than having to look at secondary metrics, like voluntary vaers data, all cause mortality, this state vs that state, etc, when the confounding factors make it impossible to be certain of anything. COVID was never very dangerous for young people. Many didn't even want to take the vaccine. Even if the patient wasn't blinded, why couldn't we have at least kept control groups and monitored them and been fully transparent about the outcomes? For me I can't help but conclude that an agenda was pushed here; I think it was well intentioned. The people pushing it may have even been right, but I'll never be able to trust them like I did before.
    - justsomeadvice0 4y ago
      Nit: mRNA vaccines were used in human trials for cancer immunotherapy starting in 2001, rabies in 2013, ebola, zika, influenza, cytamegalovirus, etc followed. It's not accurate to say the technology had "never been used in humans before" COVID19; but the US FDA had never approved widespread use of it until then.
      - 4y ago
cameldrv 4y ago
Vaccine Safety Datalink has this data. It's not nationwide, but covers a decent chunk of the country [1] There are about 9 million people whose medical records are included in the dataset. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kosherhurricane 4y ago
> Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger people in last two years. Is that due to covid or due to vaccination? You can look at countries with young populations with low rates of vaccination before the first infection, say South Africa. The data points to it being due to covid. > That itself suggests either bias or complacency to me. > Would you be against data collection? It's not implying anything. The data is being collected. In countries like the UK and Israel where government knows the vaccination status of 100% of the population, you can do very precise studies. You ARE implying something.

autoexec 4y ago

> I think my biggest issue with the whole thing is lack of data collection at the national level about adults who face cardiovascular issues and their vaccination/covid status. What is your evidence that there is zero data being collected on this? What is your evidence that we refuse to collect this data? I can prove that the issue is being considered along with every other side effect experienced by people taking these vaccines. Research on the subject already exists, how is that possible if no one is collecting data? VAERS continues to collect data on the side effects experienced by people who have taken the vaccine, which is then being evaluated by researchers. What evidence you do you have that this isn't happening?

nyrulez 4y ago
1. My doctor(s) (in USA) told me so. They were not aware of any data collection around this and my condition. I did explicitly ask them. 2. Where is this data? If it's being collected, we should be able to see it or clear conclusions from it? It's a very simple data set too. I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > I have not seen any clear national level data or any discussion around it for vaccination status/blood clots in any media. In research: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582622/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35582622/ In media: https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/fda-restricts-jjs-covid-19-vaccine-due-to-blood-clot-risk/ https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/fda-restricts-jjs-covid-19-vac... I'll be generous and suggest that your doctor misunderstood your question. VAERS is a nationwide data collection program being used to collect evidence for the adverse effects of these vaccines, including heart problems and blood clots. Your doctor is certainly aware of this program and if they are dealing with covid patients they are most likely involved in collecting and sharing their own observations and data as well. > blood clots became a concern starting in April 2021, when the government put a pause on the J&J shot after six women who received it developed rare blood clots—and one died. All of these cases were reported to the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS), a national early reporting warning system to detect safety problems with U.S.-licensed vaccines. (https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-...) Data on the problems the vaccines might be causing is continuously being collected and evaluated. Researchers all over the globe are exchanging data on every facet of this novel virus and the new vaccines we've developed. The possible risks of these vaccines are not being ignored and research is not forbidden. If people are telling you otherwise, you might want to ask them to clarity their position or you may want to reevaluate where you've been getting your information.
  - zackees 4y ago
    [dead]
  - locustous 4y ago
    The problem is that if the front line medical staff don't collect the data the existence of collections organizations and publications is effectively irrelevant because they end up totally blind to this potential data. "Blind man reports on sky color" is pretty meaningless. Generously we may call this an oversight that so many in front line medical believe there is no collection method or refuse to use it. Negatively, it provides plausible deniability to high minded academics while the process is intentionally shortcutted at the ground level in a massive fraud and cover up. For myself, I've personally seen this lack of reporting for years, even before COVID, by nurses and doctors at various hospitals. There is a very pervasive attitude of, the vaccines are safe therefore your problem immediately following is total coincidence and we will report nothing. Given it's existence for years and the lack of general training in this regard I can't help but lose trust in the entirety of the system as, at best, extremely dysfunctional.
nyrulez 4y ago
I did look at https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html https://vaers.hhs.gov/reportevent.html btw. It seems to have great intentions. I have no idea about the level of compliance since it's purely voluntary it seems. I would love to see the data around clots, which btw that page doesn't seem to list as a condition to be reported.
- arghnoname 4y ago
  As you note, the VAERS database is voluntary and probably misses many conditions that aren't associated with a vaccine when undergoing treatment. I accept that taking medicine, any medicine, imposes risk for adverse events. What's crazy to me is we just underwent widespread inoculation of a brand new type of vaccine technology that has never been used in humans before, meant to inoculate us against a disease that never existed before, and it _feels_ like the powers that be just don't want to ask certain questions. Let's say the vaccine is great, it causes no one harm (this is true if no vaccine, but I pose it for the sake of argument). It would still increase confidence and dispel paranoia if it and its possible harms were studied in a much more direct way than having to look at secondary metrics, like voluntary vaers data, all cause mortality, this state vs that state, etc, when the confounding factors make it impossible to be certain of anything. COVID was never very dangerous for young people. Many didn't even want to take the vaccine. Even if the patient wasn't blinded, why couldn't we have at least kept control groups and monitored them and been fully transparent about the outcomes? For me I can't help but conclude that an agenda was pushed here; I think it was well intentioned. The people pushing it may have even been right, but I'll never be able to trust them like I did before.
  - justsomeadvice0 4y ago
    Nit: mRNA vaccines were used in human trials for cancer immunotherapy starting in 2001, rabies in 2013, ebola, zika, influenza, cytamegalovirus, etc followed. It's not accurate to say the technology had "never been used in humans before" COVID19; but the US FDA had never approved widespread use of it until then.
    - 4y ago

cameldrv 4y ago

Vaccine Safety Datalink has this data. It's not nationwide, but covers a decent chunk of the country [1] There are about 9 million people whose medical records are included in the dataset. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kosherhurricane 4y ago

> Blood clots have gone up significantly for younger people in last two years. Is that due to covid or due to vaccination? You can look at countries with young populations with low rates of vaccination before the first infection, say South Africa. The data points to it being due to covid. > That itself suggests either bias or complacency to me. > Would you be against data collection? It's not implying anything. The data is being collected. In countries like the UK and Israel where government knows the vaccination status of 100% of the population, you can do very precise studies. You ARE implying something.