41 ms·

Heart attacks on rise for 25-44 age group

260 points by luu 4y ago

kettleballroll 4y ago
Can't watch from my country, what's the tl;dw? In which population, and are there any reasons why?
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Journal article is here https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 I only read the abstract, but they don't offer an explanation - only that it's linked to the pandemic in terms of time-frame.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    Full text available at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/
- alfor 4y ago
  Important rise, we don’t know why(job loss? stress?, covid?), we don’t talk about mRNA vaccines.
  - zxcvbn4038 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - threeseed 4y ago
      You do know that not everyone lives in the US. And so your tired argument about pharmaceutical companies and elections is irrelevant for many of us.
  - oblib 4y ago
    I'll give you my experience with them. I just turned 63 and got the Pfizer vaxx and boosters as early as I could. Honestly, I did not have any side effects at all and neither did my wife. We made a point to take some vitamins and supplements for a few days before getting the shots, but that was all. In Dec 2021 one of our daughters, who refused to get vaxxed, came up for the holidays and tested positive about 5 days later. She was sick in bed for 5 days. My wife and I had to nurse her but we still did not get infected. Neither of us wore masks in the house during that time, but we did open windows and doors to freshen the air everyday. She's gotten infected two more times since then, and told us not long ago she's dealing with some long haul issues. I don't get out much but my wife deals with people from all over (we live near a tourist destination) and neither of have been sick at all since before this crud hit. The only other thing we've really done is keep up on the vitamins and supplements. And really don't even do those everyday. More like a few times a week. So I really can't say anything negative about the mRNA vaccine I and few other's I know got. None of us who are fully vaxxed and boosted have experienced any downside or been infected with Covid. Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling anything close to invincible, or smart for that matter. It's been a roll of the dice no matter what we've chose to do about covid.
    - wccrawford 4y ago
      My wife and our friends all got vaccinated as early as we could, and got all the boosters we could. We're also pretty careful around strangers, and stay home when we feel sick. Most of us have had Covid at least once now. I'm super glad that you haven't had Covid and I hope you never do. But the vaccine just vastly improves your odds of not contracting it, and lessens the effects if you do. It's not anywhere near 100% effective against it. My point is that you should continue to be at least a little cautious, and not just ignore Covid.
    - alfor 4y ago
      I got 2X vax, my wife also. We both got covid anyway. I also got covid early and it was bad, took time to get through it. My aunt got heart problems 3 days after second dose, almost died, dismissed by doctor, unreported. I saw that a simple procedure (aspiration) would reduce 3X the number of cardiac problem caused by the vaccine (make sure you inject in the muscle not in a vein) they don’t do it even if it take just a few second and even the veterinarian do it on horses. I also saw how the medical system work from the inside: The pharma own everything, that make the "formation" control the governing bodies. Follow the money explain a lot of what is happening. The risk/benefit was probably good for the first few variants. Also to get emergency use(absolution from responsibility) they had to have zero other solutions, doctor that found solution got destroyed, the solutions got demolished. TLDR: it’s complicated
- autoexec 4y ago
  Covid infection, even previous infection, will doubtless be one reason. With so many people getting infected (and reinfected), that's got to take a toll on the population. > anyone infected with COVID is at higher risk for heart issues—including clots, inflammation, and arrhythmias—a risk that persists even in relatively healthy people long after the illness has passed...I went into it thinking that [the risk] was going to be most pronounced and evident in people who smoked a lot or had diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, or some [other] risk factors. What we found is that even in people who did not have any heart problems start with, were athletic, did not have a high BMI, were not obese, did not smoke, did not have kidney disease or diabetes—even in people who were previously healthy and had no risk factors or problems with the heart—COVID-19 affected them in such a way that manifested the higher risk of heart problems than people who did not get COVID-19. (https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/covid-and-the-heart-it-spares-no-one https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/covid-and-the-heart-it-spa...) > The coronavirus may infect and damage the heart’s muscle tissue directly...Coronavirus infection also affects the inner surfaces of veins and arteries, which can cause blood vessel inflammation, damage to very small vessels and blood clots....As the virus causes inflammation and fluid to fill up the air sacs in the lungs, less oxygen can reach the bloodstream. The heart has to work harder to pump blood through the body, which can be dangerous in people with preexisting heart disease...Viral infections can cause cardiomyopathy, a heart muscle disorder that affects the heart’s ability to pump blood effectively (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/heart-problems-after-covid19 https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...)
  - idontwantthis 4y ago
    Any idea if an EKG as part of an annual checkup will notice if your heart has been damaged in this way?
    - autoexec 4y ago
      EKG results can change after covid, but I'm guessing it'd be even easier to see problems with imaging (CMR) too. I'd make sure your doctor knows you've had covid so they can take that into consideration and I wouldn't wait around for your annual if covid symptoms resolved a while ago but you've been experiencing symptoms like shortness of breath or chest pain. I've been seeing discussions for a long time about the advantages of cardiac screening for people post-covid and when it'd be most appropriate to recommend it or request it, but I have my doubts it'll ever be common practice to do it for everyone. The healthcare system in my country isn't great about giving preventative care and early screening to the masses.
alfor 4y ago
[flagged]
- weakfish 4y ago
  I’ll bite. Why?
  - eric-hu 4y ago
    I assume it’s about this https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-consideration...
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  Considering older age groups tend to be more vaccinated than the 25-44 cohort and they haven’t seen as much of a rise as the 25-44 cohort it’s pretty clear it’s Covid and/or stressors related to the pandemic. The fact that you’re even considering the vaccine when we’ve been hit by a pandemic that is known to devastate organs shows that the anti-vaxxers have been unfortunately effective in their messaging.
  - upsidesinclude 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dang 4y ago
      Please don't post flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Wouldn't a properly controlled study consist of comparing 25-44 adults who have not been vaccinated vs. an identical group (as much as that's possible) who have been?
pillefitz 4y ago
Mirror: https://archive.is/wCcb7 https://archive.is/wCcb7
saul_goodman 4y ago
[flagged]
godelski 4y ago
Does anyone have link to the full text? (can't access from my institution) I ask because they seem to point to covid but there are lots of other factors that need to be considered that are quite obviously causal. For example obesity is on the rise[0], including a ~5% between 1999 and 2019. I think it would be unsurprising to anyone that obesity increased in a period where we all shifted to online and that regular exercise decreased. Especially true for younger people who typically are more active than the other groups (which could correlate to the difference in age groups). Stress is another big factor and I think even excluding the pandemic stress in our country is on the rise and the pandemic made it way worse. There's obviously many more factors like this and since I can't see if the paper attempts to account for these I'm asking if someone else can answer this. But if these are not answered (as the link suggests) this is quite reckless to just state that a temporal correlation equates to the virus being a causal factor and ironically may increase said risk through the aforementioned factors. [0] https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2022/ https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2022/
- graeme 4y ago
  Heart attack deaths were steadily falling until the pandemic, over a period when obesity rose massively. Obesity is linked to heart attacks but larger rises than could have happened in past three years didn’t cause a population level of heart attack deaths
- steve1977 4y ago
  Obesity is also a risk factor for severe COVID cases, so the two might even be entangled.
- troydavis 4y ago
  Here’s the full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ The submitted article describes this study as “new” (and uses an incomplete headline as clickbait…), but it’s been public since September and was widely covered at that time. Here’s a more detailed article from October: https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-heart-attack-deaths-like-nothing-seen-before/ https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-...
SturgeonsLaw 4y ago
For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88-92b2-04c7945d5c09/jmv28187-fig-0005-m.jpg https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a higher rate of death, light blue is lower. A state-by-state graph of vaccination percentage is available here: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/12/16/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses-promo-1608170893853/covid-19-vaccine-doses-promo-1608170893853-superJumbo-v381.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/12/16/us/covid-19-vacci... These graphs would indicate that the states with the lowest vaccination rates have the highest AMI mortality rates.
- nyrulez 4y ago
  It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? After all, it's the biggest change that young people have experienced that coincides with what authors note. Has there been any other huge lifestyle or external change for younger people? The other is staying indoors and not spending time outside. That could lead to lower activity levels and more stress. I can't think of many others, apart from covid itself. It would be the right thing to do to explore it as a causal factor with cool heads. It's not impossible is it? What if it actually is leading to huge risk and we refuse to learn about it until 10 years later because we must not talk ill about vaccines? In my own case, I had significant cardiovascular issues at a relatively young age, 1 week after I got my booster. They are simply not collecting this kind of data at a large scale to draw meaningful conclusions either way because the whole vaccine discussion is so charged. My doctor said he doesn't know if it's common enough because they are not instructed to collect this information. For me, even though it's anecdotal, the severity of my incident so close to the booster, without having any other history obviously makes me consider it as the #1 factor, not anything else.
aliqot 4y ago
What if this is just due to people on average being the fattest and most stressed out they've ever been? Being inside for a few years didn't help everyone physically.
- tremere 4y ago
  Obesity has been trending up even before the pandemic. I don't see how driving through stressful traffic for 60-120+ minutes per day and eating restaurant food is supposed to make anyone healthier. In my personal experience, the pandemic led me to build a home gym and prepare my own food, both of which have seem to have led to better health both "objectively" (weight, cholesterol, CRP, VO2max) and subjectively (how I "feel").
  - petodo 4y ago
    > In my personal experience, the pandemic led me to build a home gym and prepare my own food, both of which have seem to have led to better health both "objectively" (weight, cholesterol, CRP, VO2max) and subjectively (how I "feel"). Yeah, I doubt this applies to majority of office workers, majority of people just stopped moving while WFH and get fatter, so obviously their physical condition deteroriated vax/COVID or not.
    - tremere 4y ago
      Probably not for most people, but it's not known whether this is due to WFH, considering obesity has been on a linear upward trajectory for decades.
  - baxtr 4y ago
    I gained about 20 pounds during the first 2 years of the pandemic. I was stressed and depressed being locked down, especially during those awful winters. Since early 2022 when things began to normalize I have lost 10 pounds.
- petodo 4y ago
  Correct, I'm pretty sure the trend was same, the question now is whether it's accelerated in most vaxxed nations compared to least vaxxed nations, then you can draw conclusion whether it's caused by COVID or vax, if it accelerated since 2021.
mirekrusin 4y ago
Currently doctor questionarre has "do you smoke?" yes/no. If you vape or using stuff like iqos, it's "no". Available answers should expand from boolean to list vaping/vaporizing products. Otherwise you'll see from analisis that non-smokers have problems, what if ie. iqos users are exposing themselves to 5x more nicotine or something else is happening that is problematic?
moomoo11 4y ago
the older i get the more i think about mortality. God I hope I go quick, like <1ms response time to off. This link makes me feel woozy
tjr225 4y ago
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Sindrome 4y ago
Thank you covid for making everyone lethargic
marsven_422 4y ago
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deleted 4y ago
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virtualritz 4y ago
That reminds me of [1] which has disappeared/was deleted but was archived in [2]. > We’re living in the golden age of cocaine,” said Toby Muse, the author of the 2020 book Kilo: Inside the Deadliest Cocaine Cartels [...] I'm sure both are unrelated coincidences (heart attacks and cocaine availability and the disappearsce of this article). [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golden-age-cocaine-happening-now-110023701.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golden-age-cocaine-happening-... [2] https://archive.is/05AY0 https://archive.is/05AY0
- bsaul 4y ago
  i've always wished someone did a study on the usage of cocaïne among politician and the impact it had on their policies. I suspect a lot of overreacting, impulsive and careless decisions were taken while under influence.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    Affairs or secret gay lovers tends to make the politicians more vocal about "traditional family values" so I doubt any other "taboo" wouldnt generate the same hypocracy. Nancy Regans "Just Say No" crusade could be because she was secretly hiding an addiction to Quaaludes and she didnt want anyone to notice. edit: turns out she was ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9471693/Nancy-Reagan-secretly-hooked-pills-spearheading-Just-Say-No-campaign-new-book-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9471693/Nancy-Reaga...
    - diydsp 4y ago
      Similar suspicions surround Laura Bush's late urgency for reading skills.
  - diydsp 4y ago
    glad you mention this. i have a similar concern about stimulant use at ivy league schools. it's not just about getting stuff done, like mowing a lawn. it impacts expectations of what people can tolerate.
petodo 4y ago
What we really need to do is to compare highly vaxxed nations with least vaxxed nations (Africa will be helpful, China without mRNA as well) and see their heart attacks trends, then you can draw conclusion whether this rise is most likely caused by vax, COVID or other factors. Obviously with population getting more obese by year they were growing already before vax/COVID, but the question is whether this trend accelerated since COVID and/or COVID vaccine introduction.
- ImaCake 4y ago
  You cant easily compare between geographically or culturally different populations as there are just too many factors to reckon with. This is a big problem in population genetics because these factors confound the already difficult to measure links between genetics and traits.
  - corbulo 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - collyw 4y ago
    Edward Dowd points out that one group where these problems are not increasing is the unemployed. Many people took the vaccine to stay in employment. Many other quit employment to opt out of the experimental treatment.
    - ImaCake 4y ago
      The health and demographics of unemployed people differ in very meaningful ways from the employed.
      - collyw 4y ago
        yes, vaccine status being one of them
lamontcg 4y ago
COVID-19 is also a thrombotic disorder. This has been known since the relatively early days of the pandemic. Have any of you been paying any attention at all?
- ImaCake 4y ago
  We know, but it’s not like there is much of a choice here. We are all going to be exposed to covid no matter what we do.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    Well doing your best not to catch it before there was a vaccine and then getting vaccinated will best improve your chances. But I was more referring to everyone in this thread speculating about obesity, vaccines and everything other than the novel pandemic virus with the thrombotic complications that swept the globe that just MIGHT have something to do with the rise in heart attacks. Which was pretty much predicted by anyone paying attention back in summer of 2020. And probably why people who recover from COVID have a higher mortality rate 18 months after infection: https://www.nursinginpractice.com/clinical/dermatology/covid-19-patients-have-higher-mortality-rate-18-months-after-infection/ https://www.nursinginpractice.com/clinical/dermatology/covid...
    - ImaCake 4y ago
      Oh yeah. I agree with this. I am just frustrated by people saying we still need to keep avoiding COVID when the cost is much higher to continue doing so.
- mise_en_place 4y ago
  Sitting on your ass all day in front of a screen will also cause thrombotic disorders.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  The overwhelming majority of us have gotten covid, though. But only some are suffering from the thrombatic disorder. Have you thought about that at all?
majgr 4y ago
In 2020-2021, while working from home, I gained like 7kg. I think it had non zero influence on probability of cardiovascular problems.
mise_en_place 4y ago
[flagged]
Gud 4y ago
It is no wonder people are doing poorly when people have a limited say about the direction of their countries - Instead barely elected officials who are mostly governed by self interest are ruling the world. A general sense of health deterioration and feeling of hopelessness can only be blamed on inept leadership.
ekianjo 4y ago
[flagged]
vixen99 4y ago
You are right in saying there are some who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attack. There are also many who are desperate not to draw this link.
blitzar 4y ago
Maybe mixing adhd meds with narcalepsy meds with prozac with weed with booze with cocaine isnt good for your heart health.
sampo 4y ago
"This content is not available in your country/region."
somewhereoutth 4y ago
For some context as we discuss this: The pandemic (any pandemic really) is an existential disaster for the libertarian right, for it invalidates their ideology that people should be allowed to do whatever they like and somehow it will all work out for the best [for me]. Thus their response is (and really can only be) two fold: 1) deny that it is happening, and if that fails 2) deny that there is anything that can be done about it anyway - by undermining, obstructing, and discrediting the attempts by the rest of us to deal with it. Posts here should be understood in that light. Indeed, we can already see a mix of denialism (people are fatter nowadays) and obstructionism (it was the vaccines/lockdowns that did it)
- gruez 4y ago
  >The pandemic (any pandemic really) is an existential disaster for the libertarian right, for it invalidates their ideology that people should be allowed to do whatever they like and somehow it will all work out for the best [for me]. I think you're declaring victory a bit too early here. There's one specific instance where an ideology failed and it's "an existential disaster"? Given how poorly western countries handled covid compared to asian countries (at least during the initial stages), should we say that covid was "an existential disaster" for western democracies? Given the political unrest in the US from 2020 to 2021, should we say that it was "an existential disaster" for US democracy?
  - collyw 4y ago
    Asian countries were doing fine until the "vaccine" roll out.
- bovinyl 4y ago
  > is an existential disaster for the libertarian right That's strange cause I see it as a disaster for authoritarians, technocrats and bureaucrats. They've truly lost the trust of the public and revealed themselves to be nothing more than hubristic level-pullers and demagogues. Fauci lied throughout the entire pandemic. He handled it horribly. The death toll happened under his authority. Let me guess: the public health establishment shouldn't be blamed for the absolute atrocious health of the average American? Even worse he claimed his inept plans were being sabotaged or ignored by scapegoating Trump. This couldn't be further from the truth: he had complete control, rallying people behind the scenes to squash opponents & was illegally censoring people left and right through the fascist cooperation of federal govt and private corporations.
cosmin800 4y ago
I think is all related to this ketogenic diet that people are following, too much cream, eggs, saturated fats, etc.
AnCapAndrew 4y ago
The corporate press is unwilling to even acknowledge that the vaccine might be a cause of this.
- qaz_plm 4y ago
  Humans are the cause
adamvalve 4y ago
What I find interesting is how many people rush to blame vaccines for this when the easier explanation, occums razor, is that the thing that killed +1m in the US has long term and secondary effects. Could it be the vaccine? Maybe because it isn’t impossible but let’s be reasonable and acknowledge we already know COVID caused blood clots and this is highly likely the culprit. I mean the damn virus was so weird and severe it caused temporary and delayed brain damage in the form of parosmia.
- ThousndBeerMike 4y ago
  Could also be both too.
swayvil 4y ago
I blame the vaccine. I base this upon my own experience. With people I personally know. Who got the vaccine and who didn't. Who suddenly, unexpectedly died. And who is doing fine.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  It's hard to take your fragmented sentences more seriously than the fact that 12.7 billion vaccine doses have been given out world wide as of october of last year. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo...
  - swayvil 4y ago
    (criticizing my grammar? Really?) I refer to my own experience while you refer to a secondhand news-product. Consider the difference.
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      Bloomberg actually has a github page where they show all their data. https://github.com/BloombergGraphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-data https://github.com/BloombergGraphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-d... I've seen a thousand vaccinated people have no negative health effects at all. I've also seen some vaccinated people win at a casino after being vaccinated. We can conclude that the covid vaccines are not just safe, but increase luck as well.
mancerayder 4y ago
Have we ruled out failure to exercise and shut facilities that occurred during those absolutely outrageous and ridiculous lockdowns? Exercise is by far the best path to cardiovascular health, along with nutrition. Prior to the pandemic we had a epidemic: obesity. Then we tell people for their health we need to shut down their recreational activities and they'd better stay indoors or the air outside risks killing them. Both ideas we all now agree were wrong.
maxerickson 4y ago
Looking at the paper, the rate in their younger cohort went from about 1.6 or 1.7 per 100,000 pre pandemic (read from a plot, I didn't check to see if they give a specific number in the text) to about 2.1 per 100,000 during the early phase of the pandemic. That's small enough to potentially be explained by all sorts of factors. And then of course the causes could be split among several factors. Doesn't really justify speculation about what factors might increase personal risk.
UIUC_06 4y ago
Shortcut for reading these comments: if anyone says "conspiracy theory" or "anti-vaxxer" you can stop reading them right away. They're just ideological warriors. Being scientists, we can design a longitudinal test (of these two groups, identical otherwise, one vax'ed and one not, did the vax'ed have more side effects?) that answers the risk question pretty definitely. Then all the data people trot out can just be examined with, "Is this as good as that test?" It seems rather clear that the governments of the world, in responding to a perceived emergency, cut some corners. You could argue this was a responsible thing to do. It would also be responsible to start being honest about it.
- ding_dang 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - UIUC_06 4y ago
    Yes, better not look at the data, because that's what the Bad People do.
    - ding_dang 4y ago
      Well my comment has been flagged so there’s your answer.
pffft8888 4y ago
"Such readthrough events would not only decrease the number of immunogenic proteins, but also produce a longer protein of unknown fate with potentially deleterious effects." Go past the abstract (which is worded politically) and read the actual research then tell me why we should not be worried that the first deployed version of the mRNA code may have an error in it, like all code that's released in a rush. LOL. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310186/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310186/
Slighted 4y ago
I'm extremely surprised at the volume of dead comments on this post pointing out the COVID vaccines as a potential cause... NOT. I'm sure most multi-billion dollar company CEOs froth at the mouth at the idea of having an army of unpaid, unthinking drones to directly and indirectly protect them and their companies operations from criticism and investigation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/
b3nji 4y ago
Presumably, there was also a jump in heart attacks around 2008, the so called Great Recession? Personally, I don't remember that happening. Do you? Are there jumps in heart attacks during specific stressful periods in countries throughout the ages too? Not sure. It would be interesting to see if this is happening in each country.

260 points by luu 4y ago

kettleballroll 4y ago

Can't watch from my country, what's the tl;dw? In which population, and are there any reasons why?

kennywinker 4y ago
Journal article is here https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.28187 I only read the abstract, but they don't offer an explanation - only that it's linked to the pandemic in terms of time-frame.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  Full text available at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/
alfor 4y ago
Important rise, we don’t know why(job loss? stress?, covid?), we don’t talk about mRNA vaccines.
- zxcvbn4038 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - threeseed 4y ago
    You do know that not everyone lives in the US. And so your tired argument about pharmaceutical companies and elections is irrelevant for many of us.
- oblib 4y ago
  I'll give you my experience with them. I just turned 63 and got the Pfizer vaxx and boosters as early as I could. Honestly, I did not have any side effects at all and neither did my wife. We made a point to take some vitamins and supplements for a few days before getting the shots, but that was all. In Dec 2021 one of our daughters, who refused to get vaxxed, came up for the holidays and tested positive about 5 days later. She was sick in bed for 5 days. My wife and I had to nurse her but we still did not get infected. Neither of us wore masks in the house during that time, but we did open windows and doors to freshen the air everyday. She's gotten infected two more times since then, and told us not long ago she's dealing with some long haul issues. I don't get out much but my wife deals with people from all over (we live near a tourist destination) and neither of have been sick at all since before this crud hit. The only other thing we've really done is keep up on the vitamins and supplements. And really don't even do those everyday. More like a few times a week. So I really can't say anything negative about the mRNA vaccine I and few other's I know got. None of us who are fully vaxxed and boosted have experienced any downside or been infected with Covid. Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling anything close to invincible, or smart for that matter. It's been a roll of the dice no matter what we've chose to do about covid.
  - wccrawford 4y ago
    My wife and our friends all got vaccinated as early as we could, and got all the boosters we could. We're also pretty careful around strangers, and stay home when we feel sick. Most of us have had Covid at least once now. I'm super glad that you haven't had Covid and I hope you never do. But the vaccine just vastly improves your odds of not contracting it, and lessens the effects if you do. It's not anywhere near 100% effective against it. My point is that you should continue to be at least a little cautious, and not just ignore Covid.
  - alfor 4y ago
    I got 2X vax, my wife also. We both got covid anyway. I also got covid early and it was bad, took time to get through it. My aunt got heart problems 3 days after second dose, almost died, dismissed by doctor, unreported. I saw that a simple procedure (aspiration) would reduce 3X the number of cardiac problem caused by the vaccine (make sure you inject in the muscle not in a vein) they don’t do it even if it take just a few second and even the veterinarian do it on horses. I also saw how the medical system work from the inside: The pharma own everything, that make the "formation" control the governing bodies. Follow the money explain a lot of what is happening. The risk/benefit was probably good for the first few variants. Also to get emergency use(absolution from responsibility) they had to have zero other solutions, doctor that found solution got destroyed, the solutions got demolished. TLDR: it’s complicated
autoexec 4y ago
Covid infection, even previous infection, will doubtless be one reason. With so many people getting infected (and reinfected), that's got to take a toll on the population. > anyone infected with COVID is at higher risk for heart issues—including clots, inflammation, and arrhythmias—a risk that persists even in relatively healthy people long after the illness has passed...I went into it thinking that [the risk] was going to be most pronounced and evident in people who smoked a lot or had diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, or some [other] risk factors. What we found is that even in people who did not have any heart problems start with, were athletic, did not have a high BMI, were not obese, did not smoke, did not have kidney disease or diabetes—even in people who were previously healthy and had no risk factors or problems with the heart—COVID-19 affected them in such a way that manifested the higher risk of heart problems than people who did not get COVID-19. (https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/covid-and-the-heart-it-spares-no-one https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/covid-and-the-heart-it-spa...) > The coronavirus may infect and damage the heart’s muscle tissue directly...Coronavirus infection also affects the inner surfaces of veins and arteries, which can cause blood vessel inflammation, damage to very small vessels and blood clots....As the virus causes inflammation and fluid to fill up the air sacs in the lungs, less oxygen can reach the bloodstream. The heart has to work harder to pump blood through the body, which can be dangerous in people with preexisting heart disease...Viral infections can cause cardiomyopathy, a heart muscle disorder that affects the heart’s ability to pump blood effectively (https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/heart-problems-after-covid19 https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseas...)
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  Any idea if an EKG as part of an annual checkup will notice if your heart has been damaged in this way?
  - autoexec 4y ago
    EKG results can change after covid, but I'm guessing it'd be even easier to see problems with imaging (CMR) too. I'd make sure your doctor knows you've had covid so they can take that into consideration and I wouldn't wait around for your annual if covid symptoms resolved a while ago but you've been experiencing symptoms like shortness of breath or chest pain. I've been seeing discussions for a long time about the advantages of cardiac screening for people post-covid and when it'd be most appropriate to recommend it or request it, but I have my doubts it'll ever be common practice to do it for everyone. The healthcare system in my country isn't great about giving preventative care and early screening to the masses.

alfor 4y ago

[flagged]

weakfish 4y ago
I’ll bite. Why?
- eric-hu 4y ago
  I assume it’s about this https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-considerations/myocarditis.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/clinical-consideration...
rhaway84773 4y ago
Considering older age groups tend to be more vaccinated than the 25-44 cohort and they haven’t seen as much of a rise as the 25-44 cohort it’s pretty clear it’s Covid and/or stressors related to the pandemic. The fact that you’re even considering the vaccine when we’ve been hit by a pandemic that is known to devastate organs shows that the anti-vaxxers have been unfortunately effective in their messaging.
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't post flamewar comments to HN, regardless of how wrong other people are or you feel they are. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Wouldn't a properly controlled study consist of comparing 25-44 adults who have not been vaccinated vs. an identical group (as much as that's possible) who have been?

pillefitz 4y ago

Mirror: https://archive.is/wCcb7 https://archive.is/wCcb7

saul_goodman 4y ago

[flagged]

godelski 4y ago

Does anyone have link to the full text? (can't access from my institution) I ask because they seem to point to covid but there are lots of other factors that need to be considered that are quite obviously causal. For example obesity is on the rise[0], including a ~5% between 1999 and 2019. I think it would be unsurprising to anyone that obesity increased in a period where we all shifted to online and that regular exercise decreased. Especially true for younger people who typically are more active than the other groups (which could correlate to the difference in age groups). Stress is another big factor and I think even excluding the pandemic stress in our country is on the rise and the pandemic made it way worse. There's obviously many more factors like this and since I can't see if the paper attempts to account for these I'm asking if someone else can answer this. But if these are not answered (as the link suggests) this is quite reckless to just state that a temporal correlation equates to the virus being a causal factor and ironically may increase said risk through the aforementioned factors. [0] https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2022/ https://www.tfah.org/report-details/state-of-obesity-2022/

graeme 4y ago
Heart attack deaths were steadily falling until the pandemic, over a period when obesity rose massively. Obesity is linked to heart attacks but larger rises than could have happened in past three years didn’t cause a population level of heart attack deaths
steve1977 4y ago
Obesity is also a risk factor for severe COVID cases, so the two might even be entangled.
troydavis 4y ago
Here’s the full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9839603/ The submitted article describes this study as “new” (and uses an incomplete headline as clickbait…), but it’s been public since September and was widely covered at that time. Here’s a more detailed article from October: https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-heart-attack-deaths-like-nothing-seen-before/ https://scitechdaily.com/covid-19-surges-linked-to-spike-in-...

SturgeonsLaw 4y ago

For those who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attacks, this article essentially says the opposite of that. While the paper itself doesn't differentiate between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations, it does contain a graph showing a state-by-state breakdown of acute myocardial infarction (AMI)-associated deaths: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88-92b2-04c7945d5c09/jmv28187-fig-0005-m.jpg https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/c0aed082-9f81-4a88... Dark purple is a higher rate of death, light blue is lower. A state-by-state graph of vaccination percentage is available here: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/12/16/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses-promo-1608170893853/covid-19-vaccine-doses-promo-1608170893853-superJumbo-v381.png https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/12/16/us/covid-19-vacci... These graphs would indicate that the states with the lowest vaccination rates have the highest AMI mortality rates.

nyrulez 4y ago
It's difficult to draw conclusions because first graph is not the delta in deaths, just total deaths. and southern states have always had a high cardiovascular mortality. I guess the bigger question that I often have is why the rush to completely rule out vaccines? Whenever this discussion comes up, its either complete blame or zero blame. How about investigate it like any other factor with the help of proper data? After all, it's the biggest change that young people have experienced that coincides with what authors note. Has there been any other huge lifestyle or external change for younger people? The other is staying indoors and not spending time outside. That could lead to lower activity levels and more stress. I can't think of many others, apart from covid itself. It would be the right thing to do to explore it as a causal factor with cool heads. It's not impossible is it? What if it actually is leading to huge risk and we refuse to learn about it until 10 years later because we must not talk ill about vaccines? In my own case, I had significant cardiovascular issues at a relatively young age, 1 week after I got my booster. They are simply not collecting this kind of data at a large scale to draw meaningful conclusions either way because the whole vaccine discussion is so charged. My doctor said he doesn't know if it's common enough because they are not instructed to collect this information. For me, even though it's anecdotal, the severity of my incident so close to the booster, without having any other history obviously makes me consider it as the #1 factor, not anything else.

aliqot 4y ago

What if this is just due to people on average being the fattest and most stressed out they've ever been? Being inside for a few years didn't help everyone physically.

tremere 4y ago
Obesity has been trending up even before the pandemic. I don't see how driving through stressful traffic for 60-120+ minutes per day and eating restaurant food is supposed to make anyone healthier. In my personal experience, the pandemic led me to build a home gym and prepare my own food, both of which have seem to have led to better health both "objectively" (weight, cholesterol, CRP, VO2max) and subjectively (how I "feel").
- petodo 4y ago
  > In my personal experience, the pandemic led me to build a home gym and prepare my own food, both of which have seem to have led to better health both "objectively" (weight, cholesterol, CRP, VO2max) and subjectively (how I "feel"). Yeah, I doubt this applies to majority of office workers, majority of people just stopped moving while WFH and get fatter, so obviously their physical condition deteroriated vax/COVID or not.
  - tremere 4y ago
    Probably not for most people, but it's not known whether this is due to WFH, considering obesity has been on a linear upward trajectory for decades.
- baxtr 4y ago
  I gained about 20 pounds during the first 2 years of the pandemic. I was stressed and depressed being locked down, especially during those awful winters. Since early 2022 when things began to normalize I have lost 10 pounds.
petodo 4y ago
Correct, I'm pretty sure the trend was same, the question now is whether it's accelerated in most vaxxed nations compared to least vaxxed nations, then you can draw conclusion whether it's caused by COVID or vax, if it accelerated since 2021.

mirekrusin 4y ago

Currently doctor questionarre has "do you smoke?" yes/no. If you vape or using stuff like iqos, it's "no". Available answers should expand from boolean to list vaping/vaporizing products. Otherwise you'll see from analisis that non-smokers have problems, what if ie. iqos users are exposing themselves to 5x more nicotine or something else is happening that is problematic?

moomoo11 4y ago

the older i get the more i think about mortality. God I hope I go quick, like <1ms response time to off. This link makes me feel woozy

tjr225 4y ago

[dead]

Sindrome 4y ago

Thank you covid for making everyone lethargic

marsven_422 4y ago

[dead]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

virtualritz 4y ago

That reminds me of [1] which has disappeared/was deleted but was archived in [2]. > We’re living in the golden age of cocaine,” said Toby Muse, the author of the 2020 book Kilo: Inside the Deadliest Cocaine Cartels [...] I'm sure both are unrelated coincidences (heart attacks and cocaine availability and the disappearsce of this article). [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golden-age-cocaine-happening-now-110023701.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/golden-age-cocaine-happening-... [2] https://archive.is/05AY0 https://archive.is/05AY0

bsaul 4y ago
i've always wished someone did a study on the usage of cocaïne among politician and the impact it had on their policies. I suspect a lot of overreacting, impulsive and careless decisions were taken while under influence.
- blitzar 4y ago
  Affairs or secret gay lovers tends to make the politicians more vocal about "traditional family values" so I doubt any other "taboo" wouldnt generate the same hypocracy. Nancy Regans "Just Say No" crusade could be because she was secretly hiding an addiction to Quaaludes and she didnt want anyone to notice. edit: turns out she was ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9471693/Nancy-Reagan-secretly-hooked-pills-spearheading-Just-Say-No-campaign-new-book-reveals.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9471693/Nancy-Reaga...
  - diydsp 4y ago
    Similar suspicions surround Laura Bush's late urgency for reading skills.
- diydsp 4y ago
  glad you mention this. i have a similar concern about stimulant use at ivy league schools. it's not just about getting stuff done, like mowing a lawn. it impacts expectations of what people can tolerate.

petodo 4y ago

What we really need to do is to compare highly vaxxed nations with least vaxxed nations (Africa will be helpful, China without mRNA as well) and see their heart attacks trends, then you can draw conclusion whether this rise is most likely caused by vax, COVID or other factors. Obviously with population getting more obese by year they were growing already before vax/COVID, but the question is whether this trend accelerated since COVID and/or COVID vaccine introduction.

ImaCake 4y ago
You cant easily compare between geographically or culturally different populations as there are just too many factors to reckon with. This is a big problem in population genetics because these factors confound the already difficult to measure links between genetics and traits.
- corbulo 4y ago
  [flagged]
- collyw 4y ago
  Edward Dowd points out that one group where these problems are not increasing is the unemployed. Many people took the vaccine to stay in employment. Many other quit employment to opt out of the experimental treatment.
  - ImaCake 4y ago
    The health and demographics of unemployed people differ in very meaningful ways from the employed.
    - collyw 4y ago
      yes, vaccine status being one of them

lamontcg 4y ago

COVID-19 is also a thrombotic disorder. This has been known since the relatively early days of the pandemic. Have any of you been paying any attention at all?

ImaCake 4y ago
We know, but it’s not like there is much of a choice here. We are all going to be exposed to covid no matter what we do.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Well doing your best not to catch it before there was a vaccine and then getting vaccinated will best improve your chances. But I was more referring to everyone in this thread speculating about obesity, vaccines and everything other than the novel pandemic virus with the thrombotic complications that swept the globe that just MIGHT have something to do with the rise in heart attacks. Which was pretty much predicted by anyone paying attention back in summer of 2020. And probably why people who recover from COVID have a higher mortality rate 18 months after infection: https://www.nursinginpractice.com/clinical/dermatology/covid-19-patients-have-higher-mortality-rate-18-months-after-infection/ https://www.nursinginpractice.com/clinical/dermatology/covid...
  - ImaCake 4y ago
    Oh yeah. I agree with this. I am just frustrated by people saying we still need to keep avoiding COVID when the cost is much higher to continue doing so.
mise_en_place 4y ago
Sitting on your ass all day in front of a screen will also cause thrombotic disorders.
mancerayder 4y ago
The overwhelming majority of us have gotten covid, though. But only some are suffering from the thrombatic disorder. Have you thought about that at all?

majgr 4y ago

In 2020-2021, while working from home, I gained like 7kg. I think it had non zero influence on probability of cardiovascular problems.

mise_en_place 4y ago

[flagged]

Gud 4y ago

It is no wonder people are doing poorly when people have a limited say about the direction of their countries - Instead barely elected officials who are mostly governed by self interest are ruling the world. A general sense of health deterioration and feeling of hopelessness can only be blamed on inept leadership.

ekianjo 4y ago

[flagged]

vixen99 4y ago

You are right in saying there are some who are desperate to draw a link between vaccines and heart attack. There are also many who are desperate not to draw this link.

blitzar 4y ago

Maybe mixing adhd meds with narcalepsy meds with prozac with weed with booze with cocaine isnt good for your heart health.

sampo 4y ago

"This content is not available in your country/region."

somewhereoutth 4y ago

For some context as we discuss this: The pandemic (any pandemic really) is an existential disaster for the libertarian right, for it invalidates their ideology that people should be allowed to do whatever they like and somehow it will all work out for the best [for me]. Thus their response is (and really can only be) two fold: 1) deny that it is happening, and if that fails 2) deny that there is anything that can be done about it anyway - by undermining, obstructing, and discrediting the attempts by the rest of us to deal with it. Posts here should be understood in that light. Indeed, we can already see a mix of denialism (people are fatter nowadays) and obstructionism (it was the vaccines/lockdowns that did it)

gruez 4y ago
>The pandemic (any pandemic really) is an existential disaster for the libertarian right, for it invalidates their ideology that people should be allowed to do whatever they like and somehow it will all work out for the best [for me]. I think you're declaring victory a bit too early here. There's one specific instance where an ideology failed and it's "an existential disaster"? Given how poorly western countries handled covid compared to asian countries (at least during the initial stages), should we say that covid was "an existential disaster" for western democracies? Given the political unrest in the US from 2020 to 2021, should we say that it was "an existential disaster" for US democracy?
- collyw 4y ago
  Asian countries were doing fine until the "vaccine" roll out.
bovinyl 4y ago
> is an existential disaster for the libertarian right That's strange cause I see it as a disaster for authoritarians, technocrats and bureaucrats. They've truly lost the trust of the public and revealed themselves to be nothing more than hubristic level-pullers and demagogues. Fauci lied throughout the entire pandemic. He handled it horribly. The death toll happened under his authority. Let me guess: the public health establishment shouldn't be blamed for the absolute atrocious health of the average American? Even worse he claimed his inept plans were being sabotaged or ignored by scapegoating Trump. This couldn't be further from the truth: he had complete control, rallying people behind the scenes to squash opponents & was illegally censoring people left and right through the fascist cooperation of federal govt and private corporations.

cosmin800 4y ago

I think is all related to this ketogenic diet that people are following, too much cream, eggs, saturated fats, etc.

AnCapAndrew 4y ago

The corporate press is unwilling to even acknowledge that the vaccine might be a cause of this.

qaz_plm 4y ago
Humans are the cause

adamvalve 4y ago

What I find interesting is how many people rush to blame vaccines for this when the easier explanation, occums razor, is that the thing that killed +1m in the US has long term and secondary effects. Could it be the vaccine? Maybe because it isn’t impossible but let’s be reasonable and acknowledge we already know COVID caused blood clots and this is highly likely the culprit. I mean the damn virus was so weird and severe it caused temporary and delayed brain damage in the form of parosmia.

ThousndBeerMike 4y ago
Could also be both too.

swayvil 4y ago

I blame the vaccine. I base this upon my own experience. With people I personally know. Who got the vaccine and who didn't. Who suddenly, unexpectedly died. And who is doing fine.

CyberDildonics 4y ago
It's hard to take your fragmented sentences more seriously than the fact that 12.7 billion vaccine doses have been given out world wide as of october of last year. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-glo...
- swayvil 4y ago
  (criticizing my grammar? Really?) I refer to my own experience while you refer to a secondhand news-product. Consider the difference.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    Bloomberg actually has a github page where they show all their data. https://github.com/BloombergGraphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-data https://github.com/BloombergGraphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-d... I've seen a thousand vaccinated people have no negative health effects at all. I've also seen some vaccinated people win at a casino after being vaccinated. We can conclude that the covid vaccines are not just safe, but increase luck as well.

mancerayder 4y ago

Have we ruled out failure to exercise and shut facilities that occurred during those absolutely outrageous and ridiculous lockdowns? Exercise is by far the best path to cardiovascular health, along with nutrition. Prior to the pandemic we had a epidemic: obesity. Then we tell people for their health we need to shut down their recreational activities and they'd better stay indoors or the air outside risks killing them. Both ideas we all now agree were wrong.

maxerickson 4y ago

Looking at the paper, the rate in their younger cohort went from about 1.6 or 1.7 per 100,000 pre pandemic (read from a plot, I didn't check to see if they give a specific number in the text) to about 2.1 per 100,000 during the early phase of the pandemic. That's small enough to potentially be explained by all sorts of factors. And then of course the causes could be split among several factors. Doesn't really justify speculation about what factors might increase personal risk.

UIUC_06 4y ago

Shortcut for reading these comments: if anyone says "conspiracy theory" or "anti-vaxxer" you can stop reading them right away. They're just ideological warriors. Being scientists, we can design a longitudinal test (of these two groups, identical otherwise, one vax'ed and one not, did the vax'ed have more side effects?) that answers the risk question pretty definitely. Then all the data people trot out can just be examined with, "Is this as good as that test?" It seems rather clear that the governments of the world, in responding to a perceived emergency, cut some corners. You could argue this was a responsible thing to do. It would also be responsible to start being honest about it.

ding_dang 4y ago
[flagged]
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  Yes, better not look at the data, because that's what the Bad People do.
  - ding_dang 4y ago
    Well my comment has been flagged so there’s your answer.

pffft8888 4y ago

"Such readthrough events would not only decrease the number of immunogenic proteins, but also produce a longer protein of unknown fate with potentially deleterious effects." Go past the abstract (which is worded politically) and read the actual research then tell me why we should not be worried that the first deployed version of the mRNA code may have an error in it, like all code that's released in a rush. LOL. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310186/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8310186/

Slighted 4y ago

I'm extremely surprised at the volume of dead comments on this post pointing out the COVID vaccines as a potential cause... NOT. I'm sure most multi-billion dollar company CEOs froth at the mouth at the idea of having an army of unpaid, unthinking drones to directly and indirectly protect them and their companies operations from criticism and investigation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/

b3nji 4y ago

Presumably, there was also a jump in heart attacks around 2008, the so called Great Recession? Personally, I don't remember that happening. Do you? Are there jumps in heart attacks during specific stressful periods in countries throughout the ages too? Not sure. It would be interesting to see if this is happening in each country.