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At home, I block the internet at the router level - including VPNs. I also don’t give my daughter admin access. So even if she knew what a VPN was, she wouldn’t

At home, I block the internet at the router level - including VPNs. I also don’t give my daughter admin access. So even if she knew what a VPN was, she wouldn’t be able to use it.

throwaway89713 4y ago
I'm pretty sure a motivated kid would just need some time to bypass your filter. Don't underestimate children. If they can access the web, they can access porn. You'd have to block all - including HTTP(S) - traffic and even that covers just what happens at home. It might be as simple as connecting to the neighbor's open WiFi, the local McDonalds public WiFi, or their best friend's mobile data plan or their unrestricted home WiFi. There are HTTP proxies operating via port 80/443, full with an app just like a VPN. I've seen a 10 year old kid use a free SSH shell account (via port 80) to proxy their traffic. There was another kid who just used a public cloud provider's free tier and had a full desktop environment running there, accessed via some web VNC interface - that one was 12 y/o though. Regardless, you're just putting off the inevitable - and then it will be like a whole new overwhelmingly fascinating world has just opened, which is not great for a young mind not yet fully capable of moderation because you didn't allow them to practice it. > I also don’t give my daughter admin access Kids can boot Linux from USB too.
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Yeah I grew up in Iran. There’s really not much you can do to completely ban everything. All you’re doing is creating mistrust between you and your kids. Your kid is far far more susceptible to being groomed etc if you have draconian parenting policies.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    It's unlikely that a single paragraph covers OPs entire parenting method. At best we're seeing one small part. For all we know, they have regular conversations about why some content is blocked, thus making it more of a collaboration.
    - progman32 4y ago
      Thanks for the reminder to remain curious. Perhaps OP would be interested in sharing more. This is a discussion site, after all. I'm honestly a little surprised that things have remained mostly civil in this discussion page. Credit to HN's culture and the moderation team.
      - pyuser583 4y ago
        My philosophy to keep rules simple. She gets a certain amount of internet time. I also place restrictions on types of media. For example, she loves listening to techno-pop music, but that’s not allowed a less than an hour before bedtime. So there’s a de facto “no music an hour before bed rule.” Kids YouTube is treated like a very low quality tv service. She gets a certain amount of “video time” but I allow more time if she uses an established steaming service (Netflix, etc). She’s allowed to see content creates adults pretty freely. She can also talk to her friends pretty freely. I am very restrictive when it comes to communicating with unknown “children” online. Kids social media platforms attract predators. Some predators are grownups, some are toxic other kids. Ik actually much more worried about “child” content than “adult” content. Filtering only works on domains. But most content these days in on a handful of forums (FB, etc). I require her to preserve her browsing history. I review it if I feel there’s a reason to (she’s not good at being sneaky), We don’t talk about the content, because she mostly just listens to techo-pop and plays browser games. If it seems she’s hanging out in a toxic forum, I’ll discuss it with her, but also be firm about blocking it. Understand, I’m most worried about making sure my daughter gets her homework done, does some reading, and gets a good night sleep. The internets main threat is as a distraction from that.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  I really wish my daughter was the technical wizard I was at her age. It would give us something to bond over. But she just wants to watch anime and listen to techno pop.
  - throwaway89713 4y ago
    And she will, she will just download it at another internet access point (could be a library computer + SD card) and try to hide it from you.
    - pyuser583 4y ago
      My daughter doesn’t know how to download things. She’s been raised on streaming the point where local storage is a foreign concept. She understand iPhone, iPads, and streaming. We’ve talked about this, and doesn’t like listening to music unless there’s an AI choosing the next track. It’s actually kind of terrifying.
- progman32 4y ago
  Oh, the things I learned in school about covert computing and "managing your manager" (i.e. teachers). Reverse proxies, guessing passwords, mapping networks, bypassing routers, etc. I wasn't even wanting to do anything bad, I just didn't like the complete lack of autonomy and self-determination. They never had a clue. Don't underestimate children. They have time and a very different set of priorities. Of course, I never needed any of those techniques at home. My parents made it clear they trusted me and that I'd have their help if I found myself in a bad situation online. I learned self-policing early. Very handy skill.
- ndriscoll 4y ago
  If that poster blocks vpns, they probably know how to install a root CA and block any non-intercepted traffic (and then apply content filtering), as well as disable USB boot and set a BIOS password. Sure a sufficiently technical kid could defeat that (do motherboards still have BIOS reset jumpers?), but most kids aren't going to be that technical, and even if they were, any kind of video would be (immediately, at a visual glance) obvious in traffic monitoring software. So at least at home, it's pretty easy to win the cat and mouse game as a technical person if you wanted to. At places like schools, the IT guy probably doesn't really care so is easy to "defeat" (mine knew we played cracked copies of counterstrike and starcraft off the network drive and never did anything about it).
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    I’d love to play that cat and mouse game with my daughter. She just doesn’t care enough :( Kids have their own interests. She’d rather draw and paint than figure out a way for to reset BIOS. Edit: All she’d have to do is spoof the MAC address.
redeeman 4y ago
I am genuinely interrested in what makes you have this draconian policy? are all doors and windows locked aswell? are you with her 24/7? is there no way she would be able to leave the premises even if she wanted to? I accept that you have a right to parent any way you want, but I cannot possibly see how this benefits anyone, least of all your kids
- aaomidi 4y ago
  Parents don’t and shouldn’t have the right to parent anyway they want. Most parents are okay, but there’s a non zero number of really fucked up parents. Parents should have classes, and resources to help them be good parents. And bad parents should be at best made aware, and at worst ridiculed for their bad parenting decisions. There are still a sizable number of American parents that think spanking their kids is okay. This is something that most of the modern world has completely moved away from and criminalized. So yeah, not everything should be ok.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    Every resource I’m seen says “Make sure you monitor and control your child’s Internet access. There are dangerous websites and people online.”
- pyuser583 4y ago
  What makes you think my approach is Draconian? I filter at the router level because that’s the most effective way to filter. I think that’s a best practice. I deny her root access because she has and would install anything the Internet asks her to install. She’s a kid! Where do you think I’m crossing a line?
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    Ignore the armchair parents. You don't even know if they have the experience to criticize.

At home, I block the internet at the router level - including VPNs. I also don’t give my daughter admin access. So even if she knew what a VPN was, she wouldn’t be able to use it.

throwaway89713 4y ago

I'm pretty sure a motivated kid would just need some time to bypass your filter. Don't underestimate children. If they can access the web, they can access porn. You'd have to block all - including HTTP(S) - traffic and even that covers just what happens at home. It might be as simple as connecting to the neighbor's open WiFi, the local McDonalds public WiFi, or their best friend's mobile data plan or their unrestricted home WiFi. There are HTTP proxies operating via port 80/443, full with an app just like a VPN. I've seen a 10 year old kid use a free SSH shell account (via port 80) to proxy their traffic. There was another kid who just used a public cloud provider's free tier and had a full desktop environment running there, accessed via some web VNC interface - that one was 12 y/o though. Regardless, you're just putting off the inevitable - and then it will be like a whole new overwhelmingly fascinating world has just opened, which is not great for a young mind not yet fully capable of moderation because you didn't allow them to practice it. > I also don’t give my daughter admin access Kids can boot Linux from USB too.

aaomidi 4y ago
Yeah I grew up in Iran. There’s really not much you can do to completely ban everything. All you’re doing is creating mistrust between you and your kids. Your kid is far far more susceptible to being groomed etc if you have draconian parenting policies.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  It's unlikely that a single paragraph covers OPs entire parenting method. At best we're seeing one small part. For all we know, they have regular conversations about why some content is blocked, thus making it more of a collaboration.
  - progman32 4y ago
    Thanks for the reminder to remain curious. Perhaps OP would be interested in sharing more. This is a discussion site, after all. I'm honestly a little surprised that things have remained mostly civil in this discussion page. Credit to HN's culture and the moderation team.
    - pyuser583 4y ago
      My philosophy to keep rules simple. She gets a certain amount of internet time. I also place restrictions on types of media. For example, she loves listening to techno-pop music, but that’s not allowed a less than an hour before bedtime. So there’s a de facto “no music an hour before bed rule.” Kids YouTube is treated like a very low quality tv service. She gets a certain amount of “video time” but I allow more time if she uses an established steaming service (Netflix, etc). She’s allowed to see content creates adults pretty freely. She can also talk to her friends pretty freely. I am very restrictive when it comes to communicating with unknown “children” online. Kids social media platforms attract predators. Some predators are grownups, some are toxic other kids. Ik actually much more worried about “child” content than “adult” content. Filtering only works on domains. But most content these days in on a handful of forums (FB, etc). I require her to preserve her browsing history. I review it if I feel there’s a reason to (she’s not good at being sneaky), We don’t talk about the content, because she mostly just listens to techo-pop and plays browser games. If it seems she’s hanging out in a toxic forum, I’ll discuss it with her, but also be firm about blocking it. Understand, I’m most worried about making sure my daughter gets her homework done, does some reading, and gets a good night sleep. The internets main threat is as a distraction from that.
pyuser583 4y ago
I really wish my daughter was the technical wizard I was at her age. It would give us something to bond over. But she just wants to watch anime and listen to techno pop.
- throwaway89713 4y ago
  And she will, she will just download it at another internet access point (could be a library computer + SD card) and try to hide it from you.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    My daughter doesn’t know how to download things. She’s been raised on streaming the point where local storage is a foreign concept. She understand iPhone, iPads, and streaming. We’ve talked about this, and doesn’t like listening to music unless there’s an AI choosing the next track. It’s actually kind of terrifying.
progman32 4y ago
Oh, the things I learned in school about covert computing and "managing your manager" (i.e. teachers). Reverse proxies, guessing passwords, mapping networks, bypassing routers, etc. I wasn't even wanting to do anything bad, I just didn't like the complete lack of autonomy and self-determination. They never had a clue. Don't underestimate children. They have time and a very different set of priorities. Of course, I never needed any of those techniques at home. My parents made it clear they trusted me and that I'd have their help if I found myself in a bad situation online. I learned self-policing early. Very handy skill.
ndriscoll 4y ago
If that poster blocks vpns, they probably know how to install a root CA and block any non-intercepted traffic (and then apply content filtering), as well as disable USB boot and set a BIOS password. Sure a sufficiently technical kid could defeat that (do motherboards still have BIOS reset jumpers?), but most kids aren't going to be that technical, and even if they were, any kind of video would be (immediately, at a visual glance) obvious in traffic monitoring software. So at least at home, it's pretty easy to win the cat and mouse game as a technical person if you wanted to. At places like schools, the IT guy probably doesn't really care so is easy to "defeat" (mine knew we played cracked copies of counterstrike and starcraft off the network drive and never did anything about it).
- pyuser583 4y ago
  I’d love to play that cat and mouse game with my daughter. She just doesn’t care enough :( Kids have their own interests. She’d rather draw and paint than figure out a way for to reset BIOS. Edit: All she’d have to do is spoof the MAC address.

redeeman 4y ago

I am genuinely interrested in what makes you have this draconian policy? are all doors and windows locked aswell? are you with her 24/7? is there no way she would be able to leave the premises even if she wanted to? I accept that you have a right to parent any way you want, but I cannot possibly see how this benefits anyone, least of all your kids

aaomidi 4y ago
Parents don’t and shouldn’t have the right to parent anyway they want. Most parents are okay, but there’s a non zero number of really fucked up parents. Parents should have classes, and resources to help them be good parents. And bad parents should be at best made aware, and at worst ridiculed for their bad parenting decisions. There are still a sizable number of American parents that think spanking their kids is okay. This is something that most of the modern world has completely moved away from and criminalized. So yeah, not everything should be ok.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  Every resource I’m seen says “Make sure you monitor and control your child’s Internet access. There are dangerous websites and people online.”
pyuser583 4y ago
What makes you think my approach is Draconian? I filter at the router level because that’s the most effective way to filter. I think that’s a best practice. I deny her root access because she has and would install anything the Internet asks her to install. She’s a kid! Where do you think I’m crossing a line?
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  Ignore the armchair parents. You don't even know if they have the experience to criticize.