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If EVs had an impact on US oil consumption you would expect that consumption to drop right? Not yet, no. Barely expect it to make a dent yet. Straw man. It's

If EVs had an impact on US oil consumption you would expect that consumption to drop right? Not yet, no. Barely expect it to make a dent yet. Straw man. It's not a climate win in the slightest. Why not? Why not in the slightest? You're saying its not even a teeny weeny little sliver of a climate win? We have to get away from fossil fueled transportation. Having transportation that can/can potentially be renewably powered has to be a step forward. What you're saying just seems like 'let the perfect be the enemy of the good' Please explain.

PheonixPharts 4y ago
> Straw man. Sorry but anything other than reduction in global fossil fuel consumption is that strawman. That is the only thing that matters. If everything we do is "green" and we still burn more oil than the year before that's all that matters.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  In absolute terms more oil may be consumed, yet the cause could be growth elsewhere. Said another way EVs may have made that same growth less oil intense than the alternative.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Yeah, but there’s pretty much no way to measure that with massive interconnected global supply chains. You can say less oil is being used in this specific fixed depth trace of an EV production line but at the end of the day it doesn’t mean anything if the net effect is billions of cars worth of ICE scrap and new-car consumption along with the impact of retrofitting every gas station, parking lot, and garage with chargers just for an unrelated industry (like freight shipping) to see dollar signs and take advantage of the inevitable price drop and burn all the oil anyway. The only measure that can means anything is worldwide consumption. This is not an argument for or against EVs but I think the parent is right at where the goal posts need to be set. Around 45% of US oil consumption is gasoline for vehicles so I do believe that it could make a real dent but I won’t be popping any champagne until the numbers go down and stay down.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  EVs could have reduced global oil consumption by 2 units while other factors, perhaps entirely unrelated to transportation, increased global oil consumption by 7 units for a net of +5. EVs still did something beneficial in that story.
- codeulike 4y ago
  But its like we're trying to cross a river and you're standing on the bank saying "we've got to cross that river, thats the only thing that matters" and the guy next to you goes and gets some wood and starts making a boat and you're looking at him saying "making that boat makes no difference, we're still no further across that river. Getting across the river is the only thing that matters"

PheonixPharts 4y ago

> Straw man. Sorry but anything other than reduction in global fossil fuel consumption is that strawman. That is the only thing that matters. If everything we do is "green" and we still burn more oil than the year before that's all that matters.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
In absolute terms more oil may be consumed, yet the cause could be growth elsewhere. Said another way EVs may have made that same growth less oil intense than the alternative.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Yeah, but there’s pretty much no way to measure that with massive interconnected global supply chains. You can say less oil is being used in this specific fixed depth trace of an EV production line but at the end of the day it doesn’t mean anything if the net effect is billions of cars worth of ICE scrap and new-car consumption along with the impact of retrofitting every gas station, parking lot, and garage with chargers just for an unrelated industry (like freight shipping) to see dollar signs and take advantage of the inevitable price drop and burn all the oil anyway. The only measure that can means anything is worldwide consumption. This is not an argument for or against EVs but I think the parent is right at where the goal posts need to be set. Around 45% of US oil consumption is gasoline for vehicles so I do believe that it could make a real dent but I won’t be popping any champagne until the numbers go down and stay down.
sokoloff 4y ago
EVs could have reduced global oil consumption by 2 units while other factors, perhaps entirely unrelated to transportation, increased global oil consumption by 7 units for a net of +5. EVs still did something beneficial in that story.
codeulike 4y ago
But its like we're trying to cross a river and you're standing on the bank saying "we've got to cross that river, thats the only thing that matters" and the guy next to you goes and gets some wood and starts making a boat and you're looking at him saying "making that boat makes no difference, we're still no further across that river. Getting across the river is the only thing that matters"