4 ms·

It seems like they have the freedom to choose books so long as the child isn't exposed to sex and racism.

retrac 4y ago
That might be reasonable for young children. But in high school, some of the books we read were Nineteen-Eighty-Four (liberating power of sexuality is a theme), To Kill a Mockingbird (rape trial in the Jim Crow south), Huckleberry Finn (often considered racist in contemporary American society due to its frequent use of the n-word) and the Handmaid's Tale (rape and gender relations and racism). I can't really imagine how literature, or society and history for that matter, can be taught without sex and racism coming up, and frequently.
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  Yes I agree, for young children. That's what I thought this was about.
- ttfkam 4y ago
  And no "Watchmen", "Dune"… not even X-Men comics. Certainly not "Maus". No "Native Son", no "Farewell to Manzanar". No "The Good Earth". No "The Grapes of Wrath". No "Of Mice and Men". No "Invisible Man". No "Autobiography of Malcolm X". Absolutely none of Martin Luther King's speeches aside from "I Have a Dream". Certainly not 99% of poetry. Also would mean "Othello", "The Merchant of Venice", and all of the cross-dressing comedies like "Twelfth Night" are right out. I completely agree with you that if this is allowed to stand, it would gut education irreparably. Critical thinking is already under fire; this would drop a nuke on it.
coffeefirst 4y ago
Given the books being targeted by this movement have included Maus and Toni Morrison, I don't see how its possible to take this in good faith. Reasonable people can disagree about what's age appropriate. Threatening teachers with a felony charge is psychotic.
- sonotathrowaway 4y ago
  It’s not in good faith, it’s just a sound bite they heard that can be used to justify not thinking about it any further.
klyrs 4y ago
If a book only featuring white people isn't racist, then a book only featuring black people isn't racist. If a book ending with a prince living happily ever after with a princess isn't about sex, then a book ending with two princes living happily ever after isn't about sex. However, these are not the standards that Florida is applying.
- troad 4y ago
  Can you point me towards some evidence of that? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m genuinely interested.
- spamuel 4y ago
  The rule says books that are pornographic. This became an issue because teachers began putting books like "Genderqueer" in school libraries and classrooms, featuring explicit illustrations of apparently children engaging in things like fellatio on a dildo, anal sex with a strap-on, etc. This isn't about Romeo and Juliet. Do you have a better way to describe those kinds of books? Or do you support having "Genderqueer" in elementary school libraries?
  - xibo9 4y ago
    You repeatedly state these things as fact, and you provide zero evidence ANYWHERE in this discussion. Are you simply here to divide and generate ragebait, or are you here to engage in serious discussion?
    - spamuel 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - xrd 4y ago
    I'm triggered by what you say here. First, this is the most extreme example on that list. Lots of other literature is on there, do you support banning all of it, and jailing teachers that don't prevent a kid from reading it, because that is the real question. Second, you say apparently, so it sounds like you haven't read it. Perhaps you don't want to, but have you talked to someone who actually has? I've not read it, but I'm going to buy it. I went to the web page and saw the intention, which is to teach young adults (late teenagers) healthy sexual habits. If this book isn't provided to them, those kids are going to get it from alternative sources on the Internet. I mean porn. I don't mean to be "binary" (I'm happy with that pun) but it really is a choice between those two things. By the way, that book isn't directed towards children as you assert. It's on the web site and clearly intended for young adults. Big difference. When I read the book, interested in hearing my review?
DangitBobby 4y ago
Is it really freedom if you get jail time for making a bad judgement call? You are free to assign "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" to your students! Hope you didn't think "Little Bill" was appropriate.

That might be reasonable for young children. But in high school, some of the books we read were Nineteen-Eighty-Four (liberating power of sexuality is a theme), To Kill a Mockingbird (rape trial in the Jim Crow south), Huckleberry Finn (often considered racist in contemporary American society due to its frequent use of the n-word) and the Handmaid's Tale (rape and gender relations and racism). I can't really imagine how literature, or society and history for that matter, can be taught without sex and racism coming up, and frequently.

isthisthingon99 4y ago
Yes I agree, for young children. That's what I thought this was about.
ttfkam 4y ago
And no "Watchmen", "Dune"… not even X-Men comics. Certainly not "Maus". No "Native Son", no "Farewell to Manzanar". No "The Good Earth". No "The Grapes of Wrath". No "Of Mice and Men". No "Invisible Man". No "Autobiography of Malcolm X". Absolutely none of Martin Luther King's speeches aside from "I Have a Dream". Certainly not 99% of poetry. Also would mean "Othello", "The Merchant of Venice", and all of the cross-dressing comedies like "Twelfth Night" are right out. I completely agree with you that if this is allowed to stand, it would gut education irreparably. Critical thinking is already under fire; this would drop a nuke on it.

coffeefirst 4y ago

Given the books being targeted by this movement have included Maus and Toni Morrison, I don't see how its possible to take this in good faith. Reasonable people can disagree about what's age appropriate. Threatening teachers with a felony charge is psychotic.

sonotathrowaway 4y ago
It’s not in good faith, it’s just a sound bite they heard that can be used to justify not thinking about it any further.

klyrs 4y ago

If a book only featuring white people isn't racist, then a book only featuring black people isn't racist. If a book ending with a prince living happily ever after with a princess isn't about sex, then a book ending with two princes living happily ever after isn't about sex. However, these are not the standards that Florida is applying.

troad 4y ago
Can you point me towards some evidence of that? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m genuinely interested.
spamuel 4y ago
The rule says books that are pornographic. This became an issue because teachers began putting books like "Genderqueer" in school libraries and classrooms, featuring explicit illustrations of apparently children engaging in things like fellatio on a dildo, anal sex with a strap-on, etc. This isn't about Romeo and Juliet. Do you have a better way to describe those kinds of books? Or do you support having "Genderqueer" in elementary school libraries?
- xibo9 4y ago
  You repeatedly state these things as fact, and you provide zero evidence ANYWHERE in this discussion. Are you simply here to divide and generate ragebait, or are you here to engage in serious discussion?
  - spamuel 4y ago
    [flagged]
- xrd 4y ago
  I'm triggered by what you say here. First, this is the most extreme example on that list. Lots of other literature is on there, do you support banning all of it, and jailing teachers that don't prevent a kid from reading it, because that is the real question. Second, you say apparently, so it sounds like you haven't read it. Perhaps you don't want to, but have you talked to someone who actually has? I've not read it, but I'm going to buy it. I went to the web page and saw the intention, which is to teach young adults (late teenagers) healthy sexual habits. If this book isn't provided to them, those kids are going to get it from alternative sources on the Internet. I mean porn. I don't mean to be "binary" (I'm happy with that pun) but it really is a choice between those two things. By the way, that book isn't directed towards children as you assert. It's on the web site and clearly intended for young adults. Big difference. When I read the book, interested in hearing my review?

DangitBobby 4y ago

Is it really freedom if you get jail time for making a bad judgement call? You are free to assign "The Very Hungry Caterpillar" to your students! Hope you didn't think "Little Bill" was appropriate.