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Bellheads gave us a network controlled by a centralized organization. Netheads gave us networks controlled at the edges, and responsive to the users.

by msla 4y ago

mgaunard 4y ago
Except that's not what actually happened. If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today.
- tristor 4y ago
  > If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today. The web is not the network. The network, the Internet, is a collection of decentralized networks peering with one another. There are nearly 90000 ASNs in use, each of which represents one or more networks controlled by a single entity, routed globally via BGP. I don't know about you, but nearly 90000 entities does not sound very centralized to me. Your average user will transit at minimum 3 networks to reach any given website. The network of their ISP, the network of at least one transit ISP, and the network of the host for that site (which may also be the destination). As peering relationships for some host networks like Netflix, Google, Facebook, and AWS get deeper, it's possible that they may not need a transit ISP to connect your ISP into their host network. That said, with the exception of Google Fiber customers (which is anyway still in a separate ASN), your ISP and the destination are separate and are inter-networked in a distributed fashion. While the "web" is relatively centralized (although has a /very/ long tail), the networks that underlay it are not.
  - icedchai 4y ago
    It's actually incredible how accessible BGP is these days. Anyone can get their own "personal" ASN. Try a RIPE LIR even if you're outside Europe, it's easier and cheaper than dealing with ARIN in the US. They'll require you to have a European presence (a VPS counts!) You can then peer with various providers all over the place (either VPS or dedicated), use your IPs there, or tunnel your connectivity back to where ever you want.
- msla 4y ago
  > If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today. It's diagnostic that, in order to make your point, you have to: 1. Conflate the Internet with the World Wide Web 2. Conflate the World Wide Web with the portion of it hosted on the few largest platforms 3. Refuse to see anything beyond that narrow section of the Internet

Bellheads gave us a network controlled by a centralized organization. Netheads gave us networks controlled at the edges, and responsive to the users.

by msla 4y ago

Bellheads gave us a network controlled by a centralized organization. Netheads gave us networks controlled at the edges, and responsive to the users.

mgaunard 4y ago

Except that's not what actually happened. If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today.

tristor 4y ago
> If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today. The web is not the network. The network, the Internet, is a collection of decentralized networks peering with one another. There are nearly 90000 ASNs in use, each of which represents one or more networks controlled by a single entity, routed globally via BGP. I don't know about you, but nearly 90000 entities does not sound very centralized to me. Your average user will transit at minimum 3 networks to reach any given website. The network of their ISP, the network of at least one transit ISP, and the network of the host for that site (which may also be the destination). As peering relationships for some host networks like Netflix, Google, Facebook, and AWS get deeper, it's possible that they may not need a transit ISP to connect your ISP into their host network. That said, with the exception of Google Fiber customers (which is anyway still in a separate ASN), your ISP and the destination are separate and are inter-networked in a distributed fashion. While the "web" is relatively centralized (although has a /very/ long tail), the networks that underlay it are not.
- icedchai 4y ago
  It's actually incredible how accessible BGP is these days. Anyone can get their own "personal" ASN. Try a RIPE LIR even if you're outside Europe, it's easier and cheaper than dealing with ARIN in the US. They'll require you to have a European presence (a VPS counts!) You can then peer with various providers all over the place (either VPS or dedicated), use your IPs there, or tunnel your connectivity back to where ever you want.
msla 4y ago
> If you look at the web, it's very much centralized today. It's diagnostic that, in order to make your point, you have to: 1. Conflate the Internet with the World Wide Web 2. Conflate the World Wide Web with the portion of it hosted on the few largest platforms 3. Refuse to see anything beyond that narrow section of the Internet