4 ms·

Possibly. The work attire for technical professionals shifted from suits and ties to jeans and t-shirts because the power shifted from Wall Streeters to Silico

Possibly. The work attire for technical professionals shifted from suits and ties to jeans and t-shirts because the power shifted from Wall Streeters to Silicon Valley hippies as the value added to the economy by computers grew. This smells like another work-cultural element that could shift easily if several startup-types declare four-day work weeks and find themselves enough runway money to get to revenue-positive. Maybe it's impossible. But if the folks who champion productivity-through-focus are to be believed, those firms should be X times more productive than five-day firms or crunching firms, the numbers will show it, and the industry will follow.

dqpb 4y ago
Arguably, suit and ties aren't clothes, they're costumes. They were bound to phase out eventually.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  There's something to be said for wearing suit and tie. It's a handy way to look "smartly/fashionably dressed" in a general context, that you have to put literally zero effort in thinking about. It's also, to some extent, an overt signal that you're committing to being professional and considerate of others - an often dismissed 'bourgeois' norm that's nevertheless a building block of society, if perhaps one that most people like to take for granted.
  - mstipetic 4y ago
    A suit is a signal of being considerate of others? Since when?
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      Since the suit became popular as informal clothing in the Western world, starting from the mid-19th to the mid-20th c. Look at old photos from that era and you'll see pretty much everyone wears suit-style clothes in public, even and perhaps especially folks we would consider "lower class" today. There was a reason for that, and it had a lot to do with signaling respect and being considerate to others.
      - mstipetic 4y ago
        Oh come on, there’s a leap of logic if I ever saw one
      - blep_ 4y ago
        It's signalling class, not respect. People can be assholes in any clothes. It's a tool for getting a certain type of person to respect you.
        zozbot234 4y ago
        It was not signaling class historically. There's plenty of old photos showing lower-class folks who did wear suit-style clothes, and took pride in what that meant to them. It only devolved into signaling class when basic norms of mutual respect began to be widely connoted as a "middle-class/bourgeois" thing, which started in the mid-20th c. in much of the West and continued to the present day.
        blep_ 4y ago
        Yes, because there are often incentives for lower-class people to signal higher class. That doesn't mean it's not signaling.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  Yep. Suits, Patagucci vests, jeans+hoodie, etc. Its all costumes used to signal tribe membership. I spent most of last week in all-day meetings with executives, senior consultants, and engineering managers. Each group dressed distinctively. It’s been 3 years since I attended such meetings in person and I’d forgotten… Execs - suits with open collar/no tie, dress watches (Tag, Rolex, etc) Consultants - slacks and jacket. Casual shoes (but not sneakers). Apple Watches. Engineering - jeans and sneakers. Apple Watches. Not hard and fast rules, but definitely a pattern.
tsunamifury 4y ago
I have one massive rebuttal to that. Suits were not wrapped in CMBS tranches threatening the collapse municipal and national economic sectors. People are being forced back to the office because the banks and the fed fear an economic crisis. They are demanding mass layoffs to destabilize the worker leverage earned in the pandemic and force them back into spending habits that might bail all these cmbss out. Suits never needed to come back. Office space must. The bailout in 2007 was paid for with our taxes. The bailout of 2023 is being paid with your time and happiness. Never forget it.

dqpb 4y ago

Arguably, suit and ties aren't clothes, they're costumes. They were bound to phase out eventually.

zozbot234 4y ago
There's something to be said for wearing suit and tie. It's a handy way to look "smartly/fashionably dressed" in a general context, that you have to put literally zero effort in thinking about. It's also, to some extent, an overt signal that you're committing to being professional and considerate of others - an often dismissed 'bourgeois' norm that's nevertheless a building block of society, if perhaps one that most people like to take for granted.
- mstipetic 4y ago
  A suit is a signal of being considerate of others? Since when?
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    Since the suit became popular as informal clothing in the Western world, starting from the mid-19th to the mid-20th c. Look at old photos from that era and you'll see pretty much everyone wears suit-style clothes in public, even and perhaps especially folks we would consider "lower class" today. There was a reason for that, and it had a lot to do with signaling respect and being considerate to others.
    - mstipetic 4y ago
      Oh come on, there’s a leap of logic if I ever saw one
    - blep_ 4y ago
      It's signalling class, not respect. People can be assholes in any clothes. It's a tool for getting a certain type of person to respect you.
      - zozbot234 4y ago
        It was not signaling class historically. There's plenty of old photos showing lower-class folks who did wear suit-style clothes, and took pride in what that meant to them. It only devolved into signaling class when basic norms of mutual respect began to be widely connoted as a "middle-class/bourgeois" thing, which started in the mid-20th c. in much of the West and continued to the present day.
        blep_ 4y ago
        Yes, because there are often incentives for lower-class people to signal higher class. That doesn't mean it's not signaling.
alistairSH 4y ago
Yep. Suits, Patagucci vests, jeans+hoodie, etc. Its all costumes used to signal tribe membership. I spent most of last week in all-day meetings with executives, senior consultants, and engineering managers. Each group dressed distinctively. It’s been 3 years since I attended such meetings in person and I’d forgotten… Execs - suits with open collar/no tie, dress watches (Tag, Rolex, etc) Consultants - slacks and jacket. Casual shoes (but not sneakers). Apple Watches. Engineering - jeans and sneakers. Apple Watches. Not hard and fast rules, but definitely a pattern.

tsunamifury 4y ago

I have one massive rebuttal to that. Suits were not wrapped in CMBS tranches threatening the collapse municipal and national economic sectors. People are being forced back to the office because the banks and the fed fear an economic crisis. They are demanding mass layoffs to destabilize the worker leverage earned in the pandemic and force them back into spending habits that might bail all these cmbss out. Suits never needed to come back. Office space must. The bailout in 2007 was paid for with our taxes. The bailout of 2023 is being paid with your time and happiness. Never forget it.