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Many men discovered over the course of the pandemic how much they actually loved spending time with their family and how unrewarding office life is. Unfortunat

Many men discovered over the course of the pandemic how much they actually loved spending time with their family and how unrewarding office life is. Unfortunately the powers that be have decided that this realization is incompatible with how the economy is set up to work, commuting office space work lunches and dinners etc. and so back to the office we will be forced to go.

collyw 4y ago
I kind of miss the office. Got a dog now, so it's not all bad.
sillysaurusx 4y ago
So don't go! We have the power. I know it's easier said than done, but anyone who has the means to do it should try.
- bradlys 4y ago
  Individual actions won’t really lead to any societal change though. Your change won’t change your future jobs. You need worker solidarity at a large class level.
  - sillysaurusx 4y ago
    Maybe. But (at least in the short term) we can make them pay for our obedience. You want me to come into the office? Fine, but you'd better be willing to double my salary, or I'm going to one of the other dozens of opportunities that don't require a commute. Out of all the different types of workers, devs have the most power. But we often don't exercise it. It's so tempting to just go along with whatever your work decides is best, because you've started to think of them as "your group." Once you identify as a part of a group, you're subjected to lots of peer pressure -- from yourself, no less.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      Single devs acting in isolation don’t have any power over their $N billion employer with M hundreds of lawyers. unless they’re really specialized or brilliant like John Carmack or something. It doesn’t matter if you think of devs as “your group”. If you don’t act as a group, you get picked off. Devs as a coordinated bloc have a shot at power, working together.
chiefalchemist 4y ago
Women have done the same. The dirty little secret of the current "labor shortage" is that the worker bees are no longer willing to over do it, for the same pay. The commitment to work is still there, but now more and more have reasonable boundaries.
- starkd 4y ago
  That's the optimistic take. But there is also another grim reality in that some have simply given up (to some degree) and simply stopped caring as much. Less diligence.
  - chiefalchemist 4y ago
    Fair enough. But to me, those people should update their CVs and start looking. You're not a slave. No one owns you. Life is too short embrace "no meaning" as a means to make it through the word day. There's not a relationship in the world worth self-subverting for.
    - starkd 4y ago
      yes, there are a lot of bullshit jobs from a decade of easy money. A whole generation of people has yet to experience a true recession. No one likes to be laid off, but recessions have some long-term benefits. It forces companies to reallocate resources into jobs that are more effective.
  - coffeebeqn 4y ago
    Is that so grim? I didn’t set up society so that I’m required to expend most of my energy and a large chunk of my day to work for some random corporation I don’t care about. After 15 years of this it is very clear to me that this is a trade of my time for money. Nothing else. I’ll do everything I can to make that trade more in my favor. I also have many other uses for that time. My kids won’t be small for long, I have many hobbies I like to do, etc
    - starkd 4y ago
shadowgovt 4y ago
Possibly. The work attire for technical professionals shifted from suits and ties to jeans and t-shirts because the power shifted from Wall Streeters to Silicon Valley hippies as the value added to the economy by computers grew. This smells like another work-cultural element that could shift easily if several startup-types declare four-day work weeks and find themselves enough runway money to get to revenue-positive. Maybe it's impossible. But if the folks who champion productivity-through-focus are to be believed, those firms should be X times more productive than five-day firms or crunching firms, the numbers will show it, and the industry will follow.
- dqpb 4y ago
  Arguably, suit and ties aren't clothes, they're costumes. They were bound to phase out eventually.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    There's something to be said for wearing suit and tie. It's a handy way to look "smartly/fashionably dressed" in a general context, that you have to put literally zero effort in thinking about. It's also, to some extent, an overt signal that you're committing to being professional and considerate of others - an often dismissed 'bourgeois' norm that's nevertheless a building block of society, if perhaps one that most people like to take for granted.
    - mstipetic 4y ago
      A suit is a signal of being considerate of others? Since when?
      - zozbot234 4y ago
        Since the suit became popular as informal clothing in the Western world, starting from the mid-19th to the mid-20th c. Look at old photos from that era and you'll see pretty much everyone wears suit-style clothes in public, even and perhaps especially folks we would consider "lower class" today. There was a reason for that, and it had a lot to do with signaling respect and being considerate to others.
larrymyers 4y ago
When you cut out 90 minutes of commuting a day it's pretty great to be able to do school drop-off, pickup, and help your kids with homework after school. I think there's a lot of value in face to face interaction with coworkers, but it's hard to want to go into a office when the trade off is less time spend with my family.
black_13 4y ago
[dead]
BeFlatXIII 4y ago
> Unfortunately the powers that be have decided that this realization is incompatible with how the economy is set up to work I hope this becomes widespread just so I can point and laugh at those thrust into poverty because their pensions required that young men hoodwink themselves into overwork to be solvent.
fullshark 4y ago
This speaks to me, but I also wonder if part of it is the business cycle is ending so the opportunity to work hard seems less lucrative.

collyw 4y ago

I kind of miss the office. Got a dog now, so it's not all bad.

sillysaurusx 4y ago

So don't go! We have the power. I know it's easier said than done, but anyone who has the means to do it should try.

bradlys 4y ago
Individual actions won’t really lead to any societal change though. Your change won’t change your future jobs. You need worker solidarity at a large class level.
- sillysaurusx 4y ago
  Maybe. But (at least in the short term) we can make them pay for our obedience. You want me to come into the office? Fine, but you'd better be willing to double my salary, or I'm going to one of the other dozens of opportunities that don't require a commute. Out of all the different types of workers, devs have the most power. But we often don't exercise it. It's so tempting to just go along with whatever your work decides is best, because you've started to think of them as "your group." Once you identify as a part of a group, you're subjected to lots of peer pressure -- from yourself, no less.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    Single devs acting in isolation don’t have any power over their $N billion employer with M hundreds of lawyers. unless they’re really specialized or brilliant like John Carmack or something. It doesn’t matter if you think of devs as “your group”. If you don’t act as a group, you get picked off. Devs as a coordinated bloc have a shot at power, working together.

chiefalchemist 4y ago

Women have done the same. The dirty little secret of the current "labor shortage" is that the worker bees are no longer willing to over do it, for the same pay. The commitment to work is still there, but now more and more have reasonable boundaries.

starkd 4y ago
That's the optimistic take. But there is also another grim reality in that some have simply given up (to some degree) and simply stopped caring as much. Less diligence.
- chiefalchemist 4y ago
  Fair enough. But to me, those people should update their CVs and start looking. You're not a slave. No one owns you. Life is too short embrace "no meaning" as a means to make it through the word day. There's not a relationship in the world worth self-subverting for.
  - starkd 4y ago
    yes, there are a lot of bullshit jobs from a decade of easy money. A whole generation of people has yet to experience a true recession. No one likes to be laid off, but recessions have some long-term benefits. It forces companies to reallocate resources into jobs that are more effective.
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  Is that so grim? I didn’t set up society so that I’m required to expend most of my energy and a large chunk of my day to work for some random corporation I don’t care about. After 15 years of this it is very clear to me that this is a trade of my time for money. Nothing else. I’ll do everything I can to make that trade more in my favor. I also have many other uses for that time. My kids won’t be small for long, I have many hobbies I like to do, etc
  - starkd 4y ago

shadowgovt 4y ago

Possibly. The work attire for technical professionals shifted from suits and ties to jeans and t-shirts because the power shifted from Wall Streeters to Silicon Valley hippies as the value added to the economy by computers grew. This smells like another work-cultural element that could shift easily if several startup-types declare four-day work weeks and find themselves enough runway money to get to revenue-positive. Maybe it's impossible. But if the folks who champion productivity-through-focus are to be believed, those firms should be X times more productive than five-day firms or crunching firms, the numbers will show it, and the industry will follow.

dqpb 4y ago
Arguably, suit and ties aren't clothes, they're costumes. They were bound to phase out eventually.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  There's something to be said for wearing suit and tie. It's a handy way to look "smartly/fashionably dressed" in a general context, that you have to put literally zero effort in thinking about. It's also, to some extent, an overt signal that you're committing to being professional and considerate of others - an often dismissed 'bourgeois' norm that's nevertheless a building block of society, if perhaps one that most people like to take for granted.
  - mstipetic 4y ago
    A suit is a signal of being considerate of others? Since when?
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      Since the suit became popular as informal clothing in the Western world, starting from the mid-19th to the mid-20th c. Look at old photos from that era and you'll see pretty much everyone wears suit-style clothes in public, even and perhaps especially folks we would consider "lower class" today. There was a reason for that, and it had a lot to do with signaling respect and being considerate to others.

larrymyers 4y ago

When you cut out 90 minutes of commuting a day it's pretty great to be able to do school drop-off, pickup, and help your kids with homework after school. I think there's a lot of value in face to face interaction with coworkers, but it's hard to want to go into a office when the trade off is less time spend with my family.

black_13 4y ago

[dead]

BeFlatXIII 4y ago

> Unfortunately the powers that be have decided that this realization is incompatible with how the economy is set up to work I hope this becomes widespread just so I can point and laugh at those thrust into poverty because their pensions required that young men hoodwink themselves into overwork to be solvent.

fullshark 4y ago

This speaks to me, but I also wonder if part of it is the business cycle is ending so the opportunity to work hard seems less lucrative.