5 ms·

Some have theorized this and there certainly are a few examples. For examples syphllis seemed especially severe when it first appeared in Europe, and this was p

by graeme 4y ago

Some have theorized this and there certainly are a few examples. For examples syphllis seemed especially severe when it first appeared in Europe, and this was probably because it was a novel disease. But thing is it also is just severe and didn’t become just another cold or just another bacteria. Some viruses just knock a species out, like this virus which gives Tasmanian Devils a lethal facial cancer: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_facial_tumour_disease https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_facial_tumour_disease There’s a lot of just-so stories about how things are bad till your immune system strengthens upon encountering all the viruses and then everything is ok. Bollocks. Half of kids used to die before adulthood and it was mostly due to disease. We associate disease as being mostly mild now because we took decisive action over a couple centuries to reduce, treat or prevent the worst diseases. We were left with the ones that seem inconsequential, and the flu, which was consequential. The bet is that Sars-cov-2 is inconsequential because it shares a transmission mechanism with the other inconsequential viruses and because it often feels inconsequential in the acute phase. Hopefully so, we won’t really know the long term effects for a long time. Post-polio syndrome takes decades to manifest in a patient, as does multiple sclerosis from EBV.

jacquesm 4y ago
> Half of kids used to die before adulthood and it was mostly due to disease. Yes, and this is why the current strain of anti-vaxx sentiment is so dangerous: if enough people buy into that crap then eventually we'll get below the immunity levels required for these diseases to remain suppressed, there is a noticeable uptick in unvaccinated kids since COVID, about -1% for now which is manageable. But if it would get higher it could lead to trouble. And then there are the vaccinations that have simply been postponed on account of COVID-19: https://www.who.int/news/item/22-05-2020-at-least-80-million-children-under-one-at-risk-of-diseases-such-as-diphtheria-measles-and-polio-as-covid-19-disrupts-routine-vaccination-efforts-warn-gavi-who-and-unicef https://www.who.int/news/item/22-05-2020-at-least-80-million... Over time this will eventually be caught up.
- ldldlsosj 4y ago
  [flagged]
- xyzzy123 4y ago
  I think public trust has been eroded by overconfident statements made by authorities, plus the occasional noble lie. I wish that public health communication had been more congruent with what was actually known, something like: "This is a vaccine authorised under emergency conditions and data is still incomplete. It's clearly very beneficial for older citizens but the situation is less clear in the young. We are fairly confident that the rate of serious side effects is quite low" (and then ideally those statements would be followed up by whatever numbers were actually known at the time).
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Sure, but a lot of that can only be said in hindsight. That's the hard part: to be right on everything in a fluid situation. It just isn't possible and for every little detail you get wrong there is a small army of well organized detractors that try to use it to destroy everything else as well. What drives those people is still a mystery to me.
- Slava_Propanei 4y ago
  [dead]
hypertele-Xii 4y ago
The World Health Organization lists pneumonia, diarrhea, and malaria as the leading causes of child mortality globally. Pneumonia's main risk factor in children is malnutrition. So it's food, not medicine, that's cured the world of child pneumonia. Diarrhea's main risk factor is contamination of food with feces. Again, the food, and its production, storage, and transport sanitary conditions. Washing with soap is the medicine here, not vaccines. Malaria's transmission vector is mosquitos. This one you do need a vaccine for, but these mosquitos only exist on the equator. So while your claim that half of kids used to die mostly due to disease is technically correct, it's actually malnutrition and living in shit that allowed it to happen, and it's our natural immune systems that prevent it (when healthy), not vaccines.
- quags 4y ago
  Is that listed for today or for the last 100 years? Because it sounds like this excludes things that vaccines may have solved like small pox, polio and other things a basic vaccine schedule has taken care of. Basically if we exclude diseases that vaccines have reduced or eradicated we are not surprisingly left with things that vaccines do not address.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    You are correct, small pox, polio, and rubella are terrifying diseases with vaccines and you should get them. As we are plagued by media panic over every minor flu, it can be difficult to form an accurate picture of what's actually deadly. You should still eat healthy though, your immune system evolved precisely to deal with this problem, and it works very well when fed.
- graeme 4y ago
  You are using evidence from the present to consider the past. This is not very sensible. There is a long list of diseases we effectively blocked from killing people: * Almost anything bacterial * Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria and other commonly immunized childhood diseases * Smallpox, which we eliminated No country has anywhere near a 50% child mortality rate now, even when diarrhea and pneumonia are present. They’re the dregs of the scourge of disease we mostly controlled See here for some descriptions of common childhood diseases of the past: https://www.nature.com/articles/pr200425 https://www.nature.com/articles/pr200425
theGnuMe 4y ago
Untreated syphllis is bad.. It doesn't matter that it is old.

by graeme 4y ago

jacquesm 4y ago

> Half of kids used to die before adulthood and it was mostly due to disease. Yes, and this is why the current strain of anti-vaxx sentiment is so dangerous: if enough people buy into that crap then eventually we'll get below the immunity levels required for these diseases to remain suppressed, there is a noticeable uptick in unvaccinated kids since COVID, about -1% for now which is manageable. But if it would get higher it could lead to trouble. And then there are the vaccinations that have simply been postponed on account of COVID-19: https://www.who.int/news/item/22-05-2020-at-least-80-million-children-under-one-at-risk-of-diseases-such-as-diphtheria-measles-and-polio-as-covid-19-disrupts-routine-vaccination-efforts-warn-gavi-who-and-unicef https://www.who.int/news/item/22-05-2020-at-least-80-million... Over time this will eventually be caught up.

ldldlsosj 4y ago
[flagged]
xyzzy123 4y ago
I think public trust has been eroded by overconfident statements made by authorities, plus the occasional noble lie. I wish that public health communication had been more congruent with what was actually known, something like: "This is a vaccine authorised under emergency conditions and data is still incomplete. It's clearly very beneficial for older citizens but the situation is less clear in the young. We are fairly confident that the rate of serious side effects is quite low" (and then ideally those statements would be followed up by whatever numbers were actually known at the time).
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Sure, but a lot of that can only be said in hindsight. That's the hard part: to be right on everything in a fluid situation. It just isn't possible and for every little detail you get wrong there is a small army of well organized detractors that try to use it to destroy everything else as well. What drives those people is still a mystery to me.
Slava_Propanei 4y ago
[dead]

hypertele-Xii 4y ago

The World Health Organization lists pneumonia, diarrhea, and malaria as the leading causes of child mortality globally. Pneumonia's main risk factor in children is malnutrition. So it's food, not medicine, that's cured the world of child pneumonia. Diarrhea's main risk factor is contamination of food with feces. Again, the food, and its production, storage, and transport sanitary conditions. Washing with soap is the medicine here, not vaccines. Malaria's transmission vector is mosquitos. This one you do need a vaccine for, but these mosquitos only exist on the equator. So while your claim that half of kids used to die mostly due to disease is technically correct, it's actually malnutrition and living in shit that allowed it to happen, and it's our natural immune systems that prevent it (when healthy), not vaccines.

quags 4y ago
Is that listed for today or for the last 100 years? Because it sounds like this excludes things that vaccines may have solved like small pox, polio and other things a basic vaccine schedule has taken care of. Basically if we exclude diseases that vaccines have reduced or eradicated we are not surprisingly left with things that vaccines do not address.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  You are correct, small pox, polio, and rubella are terrifying diseases with vaccines and you should get them. As we are plagued by media panic over every minor flu, it can be difficult to form an accurate picture of what's actually deadly. You should still eat healthy though, your immune system evolved precisely to deal with this problem, and it works very well when fed.
graeme 4y ago
You are using evidence from the present to consider the past. This is not very sensible. There is a long list of diseases we effectively blocked from killing people: * Almost anything bacterial * Measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria and other commonly immunized childhood diseases * Smallpox, which we eliminated No country has anywhere near a 50% child mortality rate now, even when diarrhea and pneumonia are present. They’re the dregs of the scourge of disease we mostly controlled See here for some descriptions of common childhood diseases of the past: https://www.nature.com/articles/pr200425 https://www.nature.com/articles/pr200425

theGnuMe 4y ago

Untreated syphllis is bad.. It doesn't matter that it is old.