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Can anyone explain why this is voted down? It seems likely to be true based on a lot of compelling evidence. What am I missing? Even if the tape appeared unch

Can anyone explain why this is voted down? It seems likely to be true based on a lot of compelling evidence. What am I missing? Even if the tape appeared unchanged during transit of the GI tract, fragments of it could have detached from where it was damaged from being cut or torn from the roll. These fragments appear to make their homes in our bodies.

mlindner 4y ago
Teflon is not a dangerous PFAS. That's why it's downvoted. Also no, Teflon cannot stay in your body. It's not available for biouptake. The non-reactivity of Teflon is it's entire point. This is why Teflon coated pans are safe. You can break off pieces of it and consume it and it will be guaranteed to pass through your body. Also further, "PFAS" has been turned into a buzzword when in fact it groups a huge number of chemicals, some of which are quite dangerous (and largely already banned) and some of which are completely safe. If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about.
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  Fluorine is toxic. I don't care if you bind it to carbon and think it'll probably never break bonds in the vicinity of humans. Get that shit away from me, and especially don't coat my cookware with it!
  - labster 4y ago
    If you think fluorine is toxic in any compound, let me tell you about dihydrogen monoxide. It’s found in over 90% of human tumor cells, and of course serves as a solvent to bring ionized fluorine into the body.
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      Hydrogen and oxygen aren't toxic (to us).
      - elsjaako 4y ago
        So you would have no problem drinking high concentration hydrogen peroxide? Or breathing pressurized oxygen for that matter? Have a look for oxygen toxicity on Wikipedia. "This atom is toxic, this one isn't" isn't how chemistry works.
        hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        You are not responding to the best possible interpretation of my comment. It is obvious that literally everything in sufficient quantity will kill you. I would rather drink a quantity of hydrogen peroxide, than an equal quantity of fluorine. Also, hydrogen peroxide is a compound, fluorine is an element. I would rather breathe pressurized oxygen, than pressurized fluorine. The lethal dose for hydrogen peroxide is 40 times that of fluoride. Think about a glass of hydrogen peroxide. Now imagine 1/40 of that, a tiny bit at the bottom of the glass. That's an equivalent amount. You've refuted nothing.
        kortilla 4y ago
        You’re whole argument is nonsensical. Do you avoid cherries because of the cyanide? > I would rather breathe pressurized oxygen, than pressurized fluorine. Dead either way. Why would you have a preference?
        labster 4y ago
        You’re arguing into the void here, against a poster who fundamentally doesn’t understand chemistry.
        hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        This poster got perfect scores in all chemistry exams in high school. Since you've vapidly ad hominem'd me on authority, now let's hear what makes you the chemistry expert.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Sure, unless you overheat your pan... Also it's ironic how the person who successfully proved how Teflon goes unprocessed by body's food processing has internal organs and blood full of PFAS that is pumped into the environment as a byproduct of Teflon manufacturing.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Overheating a Teflon pan is pretty difficult to do, and even then it's not like it suddenly exposes your body to dangerous chemicals if you continue to use the pan after it's been overheated once.
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      It's not that difficult to heat the pan to 280 degrees by accident, which is all that's required, no? At that point you feel sick and your pet birds start to drop dead.
      - mlindner 4y ago
        Note I said "after". And you'd have to leave it at 280 degrees for quite some time to get the temporary effects. Some good ventilation and taking the pan off the fire will end the effects. If I'm remembering the statistics correctly, despite the millions of Teflon pans in the US, there is less than 1 case of people getting Teflon flu from cookware per year. It's just not something that happens. Lightning strikes humans more often.
        throwaway290 4y ago
        The probability of me leaving pan on high heat by accident: high, done this multiple times. The probability of me reporting any sickness as teflon flu: zero because I had no idea that Teflon could cause anything like this until yesterday when I looked this up. And we don't know anything about long-term effects. Anyway it's pointless because no matter how safe teflon is the side products of its manufacturing should already be enough of concern to render it illegal but somehow no one cares
- giantg2 4y ago
  "If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about." That's funny, because clearly you don't know what you're talking about, or how PTFE is made. I never said the PTFE was the problem. PTFE was manufactured using PFOA. DuPont replaced PFOA with GenX. We know PFOA is linked to various health concerns. We don't have much info on GenX, but the EPA has issued cautionary guidelines on potential health impact.
autoexec 4y ago
https://phys.org/news/2022-10-teflon-coating-hot-microplastics-cooking.html https://phys.org/news/2022-10-teflon-coating-hot-microplasti... What harms might result from the ingestion of tiny bits of Teflon is something I suspect will be much more closely looked at now that we're learning more about the effects of microplastics and PFAS on the body. While we wait for science to do its thing, the more immediate concern is Polymer Fume Fever (https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/engine-company-ems-polymer-fume-fever/ https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/engine-company-...). Breathing PFIB sure seems like something best avoided. You can always keep a bird around like they did in mines. If your canary dies in your kitchen maybe open a window. Folks should absolutely go ahead and snack on teflon if they want to, but where it's possible I see very little harm in taking a precautionary approach with PFAS, including teflon, especially considering DuPont's track record on deliberately and aggressively hiding known harms from the public and the environmental and safety concerns surrounding its production.

mlindner 4y ago

Teflon is not a dangerous PFAS. That's why it's downvoted. Also no, Teflon cannot stay in your body. It's not available for biouptake. The non-reactivity of Teflon is it's entire point. This is why Teflon coated pans are safe. You can break off pieces of it and consume it and it will be guaranteed to pass through your body. Also further, "PFAS" has been turned into a buzzword when in fact it groups a huge number of chemicals, some of which are quite dangerous (and largely already banned) and some of which are completely safe. If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about.

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
Fluorine is toxic. I don't care if you bind it to carbon and think it'll probably never break bonds in the vicinity of humans. Get that shit away from me, and especially don't coat my cookware with it!
- labster 4y ago
  If you think fluorine is toxic in any compound, let me tell you about dihydrogen monoxide. It’s found in over 90% of human tumor cells, and of course serves as a solvent to bring ionized fluorine into the body.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Hydrogen and oxygen aren't toxic (to us).
    - elsjaako 4y ago
      So you would have no problem drinking high concentration hydrogen peroxide? Or breathing pressurized oxygen for that matter? Have a look for oxygen toxicity on Wikipedia. "This atom is toxic, this one isn't" isn't how chemistry works.
      - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        You are not responding to the best possible interpretation of my comment. It is obvious that literally everything in sufficient quantity will kill you. I would rather drink a quantity of hydrogen peroxide, than an equal quantity of fluorine. Also, hydrogen peroxide is a compound, fluorine is an element. I would rather breathe pressurized oxygen, than pressurized fluorine. The lethal dose for hydrogen peroxide is 40 times that of fluoride. Think about a glass of hydrogen peroxide. Now imagine 1/40 of that, a tiny bit at the bottom of the glass. That's an equivalent amount. You've refuted nothing.
        kortilla 4y ago
        You’re whole argument is nonsensical. Do you avoid cherries because of the cyanide? > I would rather breathe pressurized oxygen, than pressurized fluorine. Dead either way. Why would you have a preference?
        labster 4y ago
        You’re arguing into the void here, against a poster who fundamentally doesn’t understand chemistry.
        hypertele-Xii 4y ago
        This poster got perfect scores in all chemistry exams in high school. Since you've vapidly ad hominem'd me on authority, now let's hear what makes you the chemistry expert.
throwaway290 4y ago
Sure, unless you overheat your pan... Also it's ironic how the person who successfully proved how Teflon goes unprocessed by body's food processing has internal organs and blood full of PFAS that is pumped into the environment as a byproduct of Teflon manufacturing.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Overheating a Teflon pan is pretty difficult to do, and even then it's not like it suddenly exposes your body to dangerous chemicals if you continue to use the pan after it's been overheated once.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    It's not that difficult to heat the pan to 280 degrees by accident, which is all that's required, no? At that point you feel sick and your pet birds start to drop dead.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      Note I said "after". And you'd have to leave it at 280 degrees for quite some time to get the temporary effects. Some good ventilation and taking the pan off the fire will end the effects. If I'm remembering the statistics correctly, despite the millions of Teflon pans in the US, there is less than 1 case of people getting Teflon flu from cookware per year. It's just not something that happens. Lightning strikes humans more often.
      - throwaway290 4y ago
        The probability of me leaving pan on high heat by accident: high, done this multiple times. The probability of me reporting any sickness as teflon flu: zero because I had no idea that Teflon could cause anything like this until yesterday when I looked this up. And we don't know anything about long-term effects. Anyway it's pointless because no matter how safe teflon is the side products of its manufacturing should already be enough of concern to render it illegal but somehow no one cares
giantg2 4y ago
"If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about." That's funny, because clearly you don't know what you're talking about, or how PTFE is made. I never said the PTFE was the problem. PTFE was manufactured using PFOA. DuPont replaced PFOA with GenX. We know PFOA is linked to various health concerns. We don't have much info on GenX, but the EPA has issued cautionary guidelines on potential health impact.

autoexec 4y ago

https://phys.org/news/2022-10-teflon-coating-hot-microplastics-cooking.html https://phys.org/news/2022-10-teflon-coating-hot-microplasti... What harms might result from the ingestion of tiny bits of Teflon is something I suspect will be much more closely looked at now that we're learning more about the effects of microplastics and PFAS on the body. While we wait for science to do its thing, the more immediate concern is Polymer Fume Fever (https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/engine-company-ems-polymer-fume-fever/ https://www.fireengineering.com/firefighting/engine-company-...). Breathing PFIB sure seems like something best avoided. You can always keep a bird around like they did in mines. If your canary dies in your kitchen maybe open a window. Folks should absolutely go ahead and snack on teflon if they want to, but where it's possible I see very little harm in taking a precautionary approach with PFAS, including teflon, especially considering DuPont's track record on deliberately and aggressively hiding known harms from the public and the environmental and safety concerns surrounding its production.