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When I was a kid in the 90s I had a teacher who was freaking out about peak oil. He was "preparing frantically" for it through extreme measures like not having

When I was a kid in the 90s I had a teacher who was freaking out about peak oil. He was "preparing frantically" for it through extreme measures like not having children. A few decades out, all those who were too "myopic" to freak turned out to be the winners. Like, if you were too dumb to know about peak oil you ended up making smarter decisions. I think there's a healthy chance we'll look at our current mindset in a similar way a few years/decades out. Frankly, I think the tide is already shifting. Even in this thread, enough folks are comfortable to say "just ain't that worried about it" which would have been unthinkable to admit even a few months ago.

tbrownaw 4y ago
> which would have been unthinkable to admit even a few months ago. That's more about feeling safe to be publicly seen to dissent. For people's actual beliefs you'd have to look at "revealed preferences" sort of things.
culi 4y ago
> unthinkable to admit even a few months ago not sure what social groups you spend time in but I'd have guessed the majority of Americans don't really care. While two thirds of Americans think the government should do more to address it. In Gallup polling asking Americans which issue is the most important to them, only 2% put climate change as their top issue. The peak in 2022 was 5%. Also in May: - the govt/leadership, 19% - inflation, 18% - economy in general, 12% - immigration, 8% - unifying the country, 5% As someone who's organized climate strikes and protests I am definitely not surprised by these results. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.asp...
- rcme 4y ago
  I've gone from caring about climate change to complete apathy. The reason for my change in mindset is that I don't want to live in a world envisioned by climate change activists. A few examples: 1) I want to live in a world where people can fly. I want my children to see the world and experience different cultures. 2) I want to eat meat. 3) I want to enjoy the benefits of concrete. There aren't any practical methods of achieving carbon-neutral air travel, meat, and concrete (among many, many other things). The changes often proposed by climate activists are to stop flying and eating meat (I don't often see it suggested to stop using concrete because most people realize it's impossible). I don't know what the world will be like if we continue on our path. Perhaps climate change will ruin everything, perhaps it won't be as bad as predicted, or maybe we'll find a solution (e.g. geoengineering) I do know that life without modern conveniences is worse than life today. So to me, the choice is between something that might not have a future vs. something that definitely doesn't have a future.
  - morsch 4y ago
    You could just fly less and eat less meat. Well, at least you're honest in your nihilism, hedonism, fatalism, whatever one would call it. The "this is fine" dog refusing to entertain a world where it's not drinking a cup of tea.
    - xyzelement 4y ago
      Or, you could fly and eat (and have children) to your hearts content and find out in a few years or decades that all the doomsday predictions turned out to be wrong (or, postponed another few decades again) and come out the winner.
      - morsch 4y ago
        Pretending like that's an option is certainly the most convenient way to go about it.
        xyzelement 4y ago
        Could have been said about any prior crisis. It seems empirically born out that continuing your life and alternating things slowly is the winning strategy, compared to changing everything on a dime because some thing is scaring you at the moment. Is seems that there's always the thing that is obviously going to kill us, that in retrospect, hasn't and just got replaced with the next anxiety.
        rcme 4y ago
        > Could have been said about any prior crisis. There is an element of survivorship bias here. The only people around are those who have survived past crisis. So you'll never meet people who didn't plan for a crisis and perished as a result of their lack of planning.
  - corney91 4y ago
    > 1) I want to live in a world where people can fly. I want my children to see the world and experience different cultures. If you're worried about future generations you'd want to limit the effects of climate change, which means reducing carbon output. Sending more carbon into the atmosphere now means our descendants will experience more dramatic climate change impacts, and also need to reduce their output even more. Or to put it another way, the more flights avoided now the more flights can potentially be taken in the future.
- ecf 4y ago
  > - the govt/leadership, 19% - inflation, 18% - economy in general, 12% - immigration, 8% - unifying the country, 5% Seeing these bullet points listed out explains much of the reason we’re currently headed for some more war in the future.
BurningFrog 4y ago
Humans seem hard wired to believe the world is ending. There is always some Armageddon being expected by large segments of society. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll always be wrong!
notfromhere 4y ago
There's a fallacy in assuming this crisis will end like all other crises. Seems like a big risk to take when the planet's ability to sustain civilization is in question.

tbrownaw 4y ago

> which would have been unthinkable to admit even a few months ago. That's more about feeling safe to be publicly seen to dissent. For people's actual beliefs you'd have to look at "revealed preferences" sort of things.

culi 4y ago

> unthinkable to admit even a few months ago not sure what social groups you spend time in but I'd have guessed the majority of Americans don't really care. While two thirds of Americans think the government should do more to address it. In Gallup polling asking Americans which issue is the most important to them, only 2% put climate change as their top issue. The peak in 2022 was 5%. Also in May: - the govt/leadership, 19% - inflation, 18% - economy in general, 12% - immigration, 8% - unifying the country, 5% As someone who's organized climate strikes and protests I am definitely not surprised by these results. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/most-important-problem.asp...

rcme 4y ago
I've gone from caring about climate change to complete apathy. The reason for my change in mindset is that I don't want to live in a world envisioned by climate change activists. A few examples: 1) I want to live in a world where people can fly. I want my children to see the world and experience different cultures. 2) I want to eat meat. 3) I want to enjoy the benefits of concrete. There aren't any practical methods of achieving carbon-neutral air travel, meat, and concrete (among many, many other things). The changes often proposed by climate activists are to stop flying and eating meat (I don't often see it suggested to stop using concrete because most people realize it's impossible). I don't know what the world will be like if we continue on our path. Perhaps climate change will ruin everything, perhaps it won't be as bad as predicted, or maybe we'll find a solution (e.g. geoengineering) I do know that life without modern conveniences is worse than life today. So to me, the choice is between something that might not have a future vs. something that definitely doesn't have a future.
- morsch 4y ago
  You could just fly less and eat less meat. Well, at least you're honest in your nihilism, hedonism, fatalism, whatever one would call it. The "this is fine" dog refusing to entertain a world where it's not drinking a cup of tea.
  - xyzelement 4y ago
    Or, you could fly and eat (and have children) to your hearts content and find out in a few years or decades that all the doomsday predictions turned out to be wrong (or, postponed another few decades again) and come out the winner.
    - morsch 4y ago
      Pretending like that's an option is certainly the most convenient way to go about it.
      - xyzelement 4y ago
        Could have been said about any prior crisis. It seems empirically born out that continuing your life and alternating things slowly is the winning strategy, compared to changing everything on a dime because some thing is scaring you at the moment. Is seems that there's always the thing that is obviously going to kill us, that in retrospect, hasn't and just got replaced with the next anxiety.
        rcme 4y ago
        > Could have been said about any prior crisis. There is an element of survivorship bias here. The only people around are those who have survived past crisis. So you'll never meet people who didn't plan for a crisis and perished as a result of their lack of planning.
- corney91 4y ago
  > 1) I want to live in a world where people can fly. I want my children to see the world and experience different cultures. If you're worried about future generations you'd want to limit the effects of climate change, which means reducing carbon output. Sending more carbon into the atmosphere now means our descendants will experience more dramatic climate change impacts, and also need to reduce their output even more. Or to put it another way, the more flights avoided now the more flights can potentially be taken in the future.
ecf 4y ago
> - the govt/leadership, 19% - inflation, 18% - economy in general, 12% - immigration, 8% - unifying the country, 5% Seeing these bullet points listed out explains much of the reason we’re currently headed for some more war in the future.

BurningFrog 4y ago

Humans seem hard wired to believe the world is ending. There is always some Armageddon being expected by large segments of society. Of course, that doesn't mean they'll always be wrong!

notfromhere 4y ago

There's a fallacy in assuming this crisis will end like all other crises. Seems like a big risk to take when the planet's ability to sustain civilization is in question.