6 ms·

A few days later? I guess I don't know the expected intestinal transit time for teflon tape. So it emerged white. Firstly, that seems odd. Secondly, how do y

A few *days* later? I guess I don't know the expected intestinal transit time for teflon tape. So it emerged white. Firstly, that seems odd. Secondly, how do you know no particulates were shed inside you? Surely just eyeballing it isn't going to tell you much?

gumby 4y ago
> So it emerged white. Firstly, that seems odd. I think it would be odd had it not emerged white. It was white thread tape (I've never seen any other color). And it's not like it should react with the contents of my bowel. > Secondly, how do you know no particulates were shed inside you? Surely just eyeballing it isn't going to tell you much? You're right, except that I already knew the answer: as I mentioned in my comment I'd already used PTFE in a previous job; I've dissected and otherwise processed innumerable tissue samples from animals injected with various biocompatible polymers in the process of preclinical studies. Teflon is quite common in implanted medical devices for the very reason that it is safe and doesn't tend to break down. Some polymers are considered safe but clear from the body through mechanisms nobody has worked out. For example the polymer fillers some people have injected to push out wrinkles are, as far as I remember, a safe mw of PEG that just seems to...go away. I've used PEG as a drug carrier but have used the drug to determine how it was breaking down (or microscopy), rather than trying to assay the carrier itself. FDA is super concerned about the API (i.e. drug) and most excipients, but for a neutral GRAS carrier like PEG. meh. Though they do care a lot that you make sure the mw is in one of the GRAS ranges!
- trelane 4y ago
  > It was white thread tape (I've never seen any other color). Teflon tape for gas connections is yellow.
  - rationalist 4y ago
    Is there any particular reason?
    - trelane 4y ago
      From the packaging, it says it's more dense. The yellow color is used to indicate gas, so I suspect that's why they chose yellow.
    - coryrc 4y ago
      Yellow is thicker and required by code to be yellow so it's visually distinguishable from the plumbing version.
  - cmdrriker 4y ago
    There’s also blue colored as well. Blue Monster brand.
    - throwanem 4y ago
      I have some that's pale pearly gray. Not sure if they just cheaped out on a colorant or something, but it's definitely bargain-basement stuff so that wouldn't surprise me. edit: Or maybe it's for stainless steel pipes?
  - grawprog 4y ago
    There's also a pink for 1/2"- 2" waterlines and sprinklers, green for oxygen lines and grey for stainless steel pipes.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  So this was less of an evidence-gathering exercise and more to emphasize how sure you were? Is it possible that your co-worker was annoyed mostly because nobody really wants a picture of poop?
  - gumby 4y ago
    I assume he was annoyed entirely because he did not want a picture of poo, but knew I’d sent it legitimately!
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > I think it would be odd had it not emerged white. It was white thread tape You seem to be implying that it also was white when it went in? This wasn't stated in the parent post. But in that case, emerging white, same as when it went in, is a good outcome.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Teflon plumbing tape is universally white so I figure he figured that was enough to communicate that it was white going in.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      Firstly, "it's always white" is domain-specific knowledge that most of us don't have. I've seen the white plumbing tape for sure, but I didn't make universal assumptions based on that. Secondly, another comment gives examples of similar tape that isn't white. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34554613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34554613
      - mlindner 4y ago
        > Firstly, "it's always white" is domain-specific knowledge that most of us don't have. How is common home repair supplies count as "domain-specific"? You don't have some teflon tape in a storage drawer somewhere in your house? Have you never replaced a faucet aerator or shower head? As to the other tape, that's apparently for gas connections (I've never of it personally) when the original poster specifically specified plumbing tape.
        bradknowles 4y ago
        I don't have a roll of the stuff, no. I've seen them. I've seen plumbers use them. And I've changed a couple of shower heads, but I haven't used it. So, I'd file this under "one persons experience is not necessarily a guarantee of universal experience."
- tempestn 4y ago
  So.. does that mean there isn't actually anything to worry about with teflon pans? I've certainly heard claims that you can end up with particles in your food, which is bad somehow. Seems unlikely there's evidence behind that given that the pans are still sold, but then, plenty of dangerous things are. Sounds like even if it does flake off in your food, no big deal? Or can cooking it make it into something more reactive?
  - skywal_l 4y ago
    Have a look at this Ted-ed video [0]. What they basically say is that Teflon is not dangerous in itself, what is dangerous is the product they use to glue it to the pan. [0]: https://youtu.be/uXaP43Zbz7U https://youtu.be/uXaP43Zbz7U
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      If manufacturer has convinced regulators that Teflon isn't dangerous just because the danger is in something that always has to be used with Teflon and not Teflon itself, surely that's criminal?
      - lazide 4y ago
        Only if it’s still present in the final product. It’s not uncommon in chemistry for two very reactive elements/compounds to combine into a molecule that is very stable and relatively benign. Sodium and Chlorine == table salt, for instance. Another example - Aluminum is pretty safe to be around, especially if it’s anodized. Anodized aluminum is even perfectly safe for use as a pan for cooking pretty much any food. Non-anodized is decently safe, just don’t use it with acidic foods. It’s common in large commercial cookware, though stainless is steadily replacing it. You really don’t want to be exposed to the chemicals used to refine aluminum or anodize aluminum though, as they include fluorine gas, chromic acid, etc. Same with titanium, stainless steel (albeit stainless generally doesn’t need a secondary coating), etc. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall–Héroult_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall–Héroult_process] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoopes_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoopes_process] [https://www.anoplate.com/finishes/anodizing/ https://www.anoplate.com/finishes/anodizing/]
giantg2 4y ago
"Secondly, how do you know no particulates were shed inside you?" It's PFAS, so he likely got a high load of forever chemicals that are still in him today.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  Can anyone explain why this is voted down? It seems likely to be true based on a lot of compelling evidence. What am I missing? Even if the tape appeared unchanged during transit of the GI tract, fragments of it could have detached from where it was damaged from being cut or torn from the roll. These fragments appear to make their homes in our bodies.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Teflon is not a dangerous PFAS. That's why it's downvoted. Also no, Teflon cannot stay in your body. It's not available for biouptake. The non-reactivity of Teflon is it's entire point. This is why Teflon coated pans are safe. You can break off pieces of it and consume it and it will be guaranteed to pass through your body. Also further, "PFAS" has been turned into a buzzword when in fact it groups a huge number of chemicals, some of which are quite dangerous (and largely already banned) and some of which are completely safe. If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about.
    - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
      Fluorine is toxic. I don't care if you bind it to carbon and think it'll probably never break bonds in the vicinity of humans. Get that shit away from me, and especially don't coat my cookware with it!
      - labster 4y ago
        If you think fluorine is toxic in any compound, let me tell you about dihydrogen monoxide. It’s found in over 90% of human tumor cells, and of course serves as a solvent to bring ionized fluorine into the body.

A few *days* later? I guess I don't know the expected intestinal transit time for teflon tape. So it emerged white. Firstly, that seems odd. Secondly, how do y

gumby 4y ago

> So it emerged white. Firstly, that seems odd. I think it would be odd had it not emerged white. It was white thread tape (I've never seen any other color). And it's not like it should react with the contents of my bowel. > Secondly, how do you know no particulates were shed inside you? Surely just eyeballing it isn't going to tell you much? You're right, except that I already knew the answer: as I mentioned in my comment I'd already used PTFE in a previous job; I've dissected and otherwise processed innumerable tissue samples from animals injected with various biocompatible polymers in the process of preclinical studies. Teflon is quite common in implanted medical devices for the very reason that it is safe and doesn't tend to break down. Some polymers are considered safe but clear from the body through mechanisms nobody has worked out. For example the polymer fillers some people have injected to push out wrinkles are, as far as I remember, a safe mw of PEG that just seems to...go away. I've used PEG as a drug carrier but have used the drug to determine how it was breaking down (or microscopy), rather than trying to assay the carrier itself. FDA is super concerned about the API (i.e. drug) and most excipients, but for a neutral GRAS carrier like PEG. meh. Though they do care a lot that you make sure the mw is in one of the GRAS ranges!

trelane 4y ago
> It was white thread tape (I've never seen any other color). Teflon tape for gas connections is yellow.
- rationalist 4y ago
  Is there any particular reason?
  - trelane 4y ago
    From the packaging, it says it's more dense. The yellow color is used to indicate gas, so I suspect that's why they chose yellow.
  - coryrc 4y ago
    Yellow is thicker and required by code to be yellow so it's visually distinguishable from the plumbing version.
- cmdrriker 4y ago
  There’s also blue colored as well. Blue Monster brand.
  - throwanem 4y ago
    I have some that's pale pearly gray. Not sure if they just cheaped out on a colorant or something, but it's definitely bargain-basement stuff so that wouldn't surprise me. edit: Or maybe it's for stainless steel pipes?
- grawprog 4y ago
  There's also a pink for 1/2"- 2" waterlines and sprinklers, green for oxygen lines and grey for stainless steel pipes.
bee_rider 4y ago
So this was less of an evidence-gathering exercise and more to emphasize how sure you were? Is it possible that your co-worker was annoyed mostly because nobody really wants a picture of poop?
- gumby 4y ago
  I assume he was annoyed entirely because he did not want a picture of poo, but knew I’d sent it legitimately!
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> I think it would be odd had it not emerged white. It was white thread tape You seem to be implying that it also was white when it went in? This wasn't stated in the parent post. But in that case, emerging white, same as when it went in, is a good outcome.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Teflon plumbing tape is universally white so I figure he figured that was enough to communicate that it was white going in.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    Firstly, "it's always white" is domain-specific knowledge that most of us don't have. I've seen the white plumbing tape for sure, but I didn't make universal assumptions based on that. Secondly, another comment gives examples of similar tape that isn't white. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34554613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34554613
    - mlindner 4y ago
      > Firstly, "it's always white" is domain-specific knowledge that most of us don't have. How is common home repair supplies count as "domain-specific"? You don't have some teflon tape in a storage drawer somewhere in your house? Have you never replaced a faucet aerator or shower head? As to the other tape, that's apparently for gas connections (I've never of it personally) when the original poster specifically specified plumbing tape.
      - bradknowles 4y ago
        I don't have a roll of the stuff, no. I've seen them. I've seen plumbers use them. And I've changed a couple of shower heads, but I haven't used it. So, I'd file this under "one persons experience is not necessarily a guarantee of universal experience."
tempestn 4y ago
So.. does that mean there isn't actually anything to worry about with teflon pans? I've certainly heard claims that you can end up with particles in your food, which is bad somehow. Seems unlikely there's evidence behind that given that the pans are still sold, but then, plenty of dangerous things are. Sounds like even if it does flake off in your food, no big deal? Or can cooking it make it into something more reactive?
- skywal_l 4y ago
  Have a look at this Ted-ed video [0]. What they basically say is that Teflon is not dangerous in itself, what is dangerous is the product they use to glue it to the pan. [0]: https://youtu.be/uXaP43Zbz7U https://youtu.be/uXaP43Zbz7U
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    If manufacturer has convinced regulators that Teflon isn't dangerous just because the danger is in something that always has to be used with Teflon and not Teflon itself, surely that's criminal?
    - lazide 4y ago
      Only if it’s still present in the final product. It’s not uncommon in chemistry for two very reactive elements/compounds to combine into a molecule that is very stable and relatively benign. Sodium and Chlorine == table salt, for instance. Another example - Aluminum is pretty safe to be around, especially if it’s anodized. Anodized aluminum is even perfectly safe for use as a pan for cooking pretty much any food. Non-anodized is decently safe, just don’t use it with acidic foods. It’s common in large commercial cookware, though stainless is steadily replacing it. You really don’t want to be exposed to the chemicals used to refine aluminum or anodize aluminum though, as they include fluorine gas, chromic acid, etc. Same with titanium, stainless steel (albeit stainless generally doesn’t need a secondary coating), etc. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall–Héroult_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall–Héroult_process] [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoopes_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoopes_process] [https://www.anoplate.com/finishes/anodizing/ https://www.anoplate.com/finishes/anodizing/]

giantg2 4y ago

"Secondly, how do you know no particulates were shed inside you?" It's PFAS, so he likely got a high load of forever chemicals that are still in him today.

steve_adams_86 4y ago
Can anyone explain why this is voted down? It seems likely to be true based on a lot of compelling evidence. What am I missing? Even if the tape appeared unchanged during transit of the GI tract, fragments of it could have detached from where it was damaged from being cut or torn from the roll. These fragments appear to make their homes in our bodies.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Teflon is not a dangerous PFAS. That's why it's downvoted. Also no, Teflon cannot stay in your body. It's not available for biouptake. The non-reactivity of Teflon is it's entire point. This is why Teflon coated pans are safe. You can break off pieces of it and consume it and it will be guaranteed to pass through your body. Also further, "PFAS" has been turned into a buzzword when in fact it groups a huge number of chemicals, some of which are quite dangerous (and largely already banned) and some of which are completely safe. If you just say "PFAS" it's clear you don't actually know what you're talking about.
  - hypertele-Xii 4y ago
    Fluorine is toxic. I don't care if you bind it to carbon and think it'll probably never break bonds in the vicinity of humans. Get that shit away from me, and especially don't coat my cookware with it!
    - labster 4y ago
      If you think fluorine is toxic in any compound, let me tell you about dihydrogen monoxide. It’s found in over 90% of human tumor cells, and of course serves as a solvent to bring ionized fluorine into the body.