5 ms·

I'm sure there are people who'd love to keep the "theory" of evolution out of schools as well.

roenxi 4y ago
Sure, but the issue here is different people want different things out of school for different reasons. We happen to know a dangerously large group of people wants to make everything about race - ie, classic racist ideology. We happen to have a couple centuries of evidence that this is not a good idea. If they are organising under the banner of critical race theory then that needs to be resisted. There is no place for racism in the public school system.
- Miner49er 4y ago
  I think you have a misunderstanding of what critical race theory is.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    Fair enough. What is it? Because as far as Wikipedia goes it seems to be a socially constructed mechanism of grouping and classing people that has nothing to do with their personal abilities. It has all the marks of classic racism. Drawing arbitrary boundaries, formally treating people differently based on them and not letting people switch between them. The right way to educate kids is to be showing them a diverse range of excellent role models that they can copy. Not drilling in to them that race influences every aspect of their lives and they should go looking for racial explanations for the world they see.
    - thrwawy74 4y ago
      My layman's understanding of CRT is that it's a study performed at the collegiate level of how a system can systemically and disproportionately disadvantage minorities, whether by intended design or not. Here are some examples: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/nyc-cops-did-a-work-stop-yet-crime-dropped/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/nyc-cops-did-a-work-... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/17/nyregion/bloomberg-stop-and-frisk-new-york.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/17/nyregion/bloomberg-stop-a... I'm throwing you easy ones, but the better explanation I was told is that it could be a study of how tax law over several generations has resulted in affluence for some class of 3rd generation Asian families on the West coast (hypothetical). It doesn't necessarily have to be about harm, just a study of a system and its impact. Understanding the nuance of how a system produced "this set of circumstances for this class of people" is why it's a college level deep-dive.
      - xupybd 4y ago
        That is one of the goals of CRT. But one of assumptions is that lack of equity is evidence of systemic oppression, there are arguments for and against this idea. There are claims that it is the modern adaption of Marxist theories into the realm of race. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-crit...
      - roenxi 4y ago
        That is, fundamentally, not an argument that can be differentiated from "your skin colour changes what you can expect to achieve in our society". It is an argument by the same academic racists that crawl out from time to time, who've figured out that if they put a lot of new words between the start and end of the argument that they can expect to be given the benefit of the doubt. The healthy form of "systems have outcomes" is economics; but economics suggests personal effort and decentralisation get good results rather than obsessing over inherent facts about bodies and so the CRT people had to form their own new quasi-conomics to try and influence how policy is written.
        thrwawy74 4y ago
        I wrote a response to your comment that I don't think was fair. I acknowledge and I do believe what you're saying: I've seen racists articulate something terrible with enough complex words to hide that message in academic settings and pretend it's not hot garbage. That exists. I've been to Berkeley, California as a visiting student. :-) Social justice can wrap around to ugly places. Economics - to me - seems like a study from a much higher perspective. I don't believe economic theory would go to all the places of why a class of people is being advantaged or harmed. Do you believe systemic racism exists? Should we study it? I don't understand why a large group of folks are very against asking these questions. You seem like a rational person, and I wouldn't hold you among these. Do you believe the media has skewed and tailored the image of what CRT is? Is it possible to rally or radicalize a lot of people behind the idea that "these teachers are telling your kids to be ashamed"? For most of my life I've seen an assault on public schooling, and I was never taught to feel guilty about my race. I did learn of things like the Trail of Tears in college, however.
nhchris 4y ago
So long as you pretend it stops below the human neck, you can teach all the evolution you want.

Sure, but the issue here is different people want different things out of school for different reasons. We happen to know a dangerously large group of people wants to make everything about race - ie, classic racist ideology. We happen to have a couple centuries of evidence that this is not a good idea. If they are organising under the banner of critical race theory then that needs to be resisted. There is no place for racism in the public school system.

Miner49er 4y ago
I think you have a misunderstanding of what critical race theory is.
- roenxi 4y ago
  Fair enough. What is it? Because as far as Wikipedia goes it seems to be a socially constructed mechanism of grouping and classing people that has nothing to do with their personal abilities. It has all the marks of classic racism. Drawing arbitrary boundaries, formally treating people differently based on them and not letting people switch between them. The right way to educate kids is to be showing them a diverse range of excellent role models that they can copy. Not drilling in to them that race influences every aspect of their lives and they should go looking for racial explanations for the world they see.
  - thrwawy74 4y ago
    My layman's understanding of CRT is that it's a study performed at the collegiate level of how a system can systemically and disproportionately disadvantage minorities, whether by intended design or not. Here are some examples: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/nyc-cops-did-a-work-stop-yet-crime-dropped/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/09/nyc-cops-did-a-work-... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/17/nyregion/bloomberg-stop-and-frisk-new-york.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/17/nyregion/bloomberg-stop-a... I'm throwing you easy ones, but the better explanation I was told is that it could be a study of how tax law over several generations has resulted in affluence for some class of 3rd generation Asian families on the West coast (hypothetical). It doesn't necessarily have to be about harm, just a study of a system and its impact. Understanding the nuance of how a system produced "this set of circumstances for this class of people" is why it's a college level deep-dive.
    - xupybd 4y ago
      That is one of the goals of CRT. But one of assumptions is that lack of equity is evidence of systemic oppression, there are arguments for and against this idea. There are claims that it is the modern adaption of Marxist theories into the realm of race. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-critical-race-theory-is-really-about/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/05/06/what-crit...
    - roenxi 4y ago
      That is, fundamentally, not an argument that can be differentiated from "your skin colour changes what you can expect to achieve in our society". It is an argument by the same academic racists that crawl out from time to time, who've figured out that if they put a lot of new words between the start and end of the argument that they can expect to be given the benefit of the doubt. The healthy form of "systems have outcomes" is economics; but economics suggests personal effort and decentralisation get good results rather than obsessing over inherent facts about bodies and so the CRT people had to form their own new quasi-conomics to try and influence how policy is written.
      - thrwawy74 4y ago
        I wrote a response to your comment that I don't think was fair. I acknowledge and I do believe what you're saying: I've seen racists articulate something terrible with enough complex words to hide that message in academic settings and pretend it's not hot garbage. That exists. I've been to Berkeley, California as a visiting student. :-) Social justice can wrap around to ugly places. Economics - to me - seems like a study from a much higher perspective. I don't believe economic theory would go to all the places of why a class of people is being advantaged or harmed. Do you believe systemic racism exists? Should we study it? I don't understand why a large group of folks are very against asking these questions. You seem like a rational person, and I wouldn't hold you among these. Do you believe the media has skewed and tailored the image of what CRT is? Is it possible to rally or radicalize a lot of people behind the idea that "these teachers are telling your kids to be ashamed"? For most of my life I've seen an assault on public schooling, and I was never taught to feel guilty about my race. I did learn of things like the Trail of Tears in college, however.

nhchris 4y ago

So long as you pretend it stops below the human neck, you can teach all the evolution you want.