3 ms·

In Spain taking a train costs much more than taking a plane. Take all the “here in the eu” comments as what they are: anecdotes of a certain country or plain pr

by jeoqn 4y ago

In Spain taking a train costs much more than taking a plane. Take all the “here in the eu” comments as what they are: anecdotes of a certain country or plain propaganda.

lm28469 4y ago
The main reason is that airlines and their operations are heavily subsidised, it's not an immutable law of physics
- jeoqn 4y ago
  I’ve been reading about it and it seems that most “subsidies” are tax exemptions - those should be extended to train transport then.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Most of the european rail systems are at least semi-nationalized.
  - filleokus 4y ago
    Most of the exemptions are for e.g taxes on fuel, or land taxes for airports etc. Taxing flights the same way e.g cars are taxed would make trains more competitive, but wouldn't really lower the price for trains. In many places train infrastructure is also heavily subsidised. The sad reality is that air travel has much lower cost for fixed infrastructure (≈ airports) compared to trains, per passenger km. If we build an airport, an airline can more or less just fly wherever from that airport. If someone wants to fly 2 hours west to a large city, and others would like to fly 2 hours south, they can just do that without really impacting the other (except for taking up slot times). With trains every single km of track you lay can only be used going in that direction (duh), and needs to be maintained year around. You have expensive tunnels, bridges and "advanced" control systems and infra all along the track. To extend the rail network to another city is an enormous up-front const, and only "unlocks" one new city (or direction). A (large) airport can be used to go both 45 minutes away on domestic flight or half across the globe.
    - sagarm 4y ago
      Tracks form a network that can be used to reach more than just the directly connected cities. Similarly, airports require a high up front capital cost and form a network that allows you to reach further than the infrastructure at the starting point allows. On rail having high maintenance cost for the infrastructure: every flight requires expensive and fragile planes + lots of fuel, so the marginal cost of each trip is high. So it's a little more complicated to compare the costs than you suggest.
LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Uhm. Is this propaganda? https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/10/04/spain-short-and-medium-distance-trains-will-be-free-this-autumn-thanks-to-a-windfall-tax https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/10/04/spain-short-and-m... https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/spain-free-train-trips https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/spain-free-train-trips https://nomadguide.eu/spain-free-trains-explained/ https://nomadguide.eu/spain-free-trains-explained/ https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/free-public-trains-in-spain-september https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/free-public-tra... https://www.traveloffpath.com/you-can-travel-through-spain-for-free-by-train-for-all-of-2023/ https://www.traveloffpath.com/you-can-travel-through-spain-f...
- jeoqn 4y ago
  That’s only for short distances (where you wouldn’t catch a plane) and it will only be this year.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    it wasn't a discussion about price. It was about the service that is offered Price attracts new customers, quality loyalises them (Its a quote from a local rapper. Not train related, but it applies to any business) Bus is dirt cheap and ok for some trips. Plane is a bit more expensive. but I'm still willing to take the train (first class) for the extra convenience, especialy when I cross the country several times over a weekend. Also, plane is only kinda cheap when you book it a long time ago and for peculiar hours and dates. It gets really expensive last minute or on days when demand increases, while train companies can just scale up the number of seats by using more carriages

by jeoqn 4y ago

In Spain taking a train costs much more than taking a plane. Take all the “here in the eu” comments as what they are: anecdotes of a certain country or plain propaganda.

lm28469 4y ago

The main reason is that airlines and their operations are heavily subsidised, it's not an immutable law of physics

jeoqn 4y ago
I’ve been reading about it and it seems that most “subsidies” are tax exemptions - those should be extended to train transport then.
- TylerE 4y ago
  Most of the european rail systems are at least semi-nationalized.
- filleokus 4y ago
  Most of the exemptions are for e.g taxes on fuel, or land taxes for airports etc. Taxing flights the same way e.g cars are taxed would make trains more competitive, but wouldn't really lower the price for trains. In many places train infrastructure is also heavily subsidised. The sad reality is that air travel has much lower cost for fixed infrastructure (≈ airports) compared to trains, per passenger km. If we build an airport, an airline can more or less just fly wherever from that airport. If someone wants to fly 2 hours west to a large city, and others would like to fly 2 hours south, they can just do that without really impacting the other (except for taking up slot times). With trains every single km of track you lay can only be used going in that direction (duh), and needs to be maintained year around. You have expensive tunnels, bridges and "advanced" control systems and infra all along the track. To extend the rail network to another city is an enormous up-front const, and only "unlocks" one new city (or direction). A (large) airport can be used to go both 45 minutes away on domestic flight or half across the globe.
  - sagarm 4y ago
    Tracks form a network that can be used to reach more than just the directly connected cities. Similarly, airports require a high up front capital cost and form a network that allows you to reach further than the infrastructure at the starting point allows. On rail having high maintenance cost for the infrastructure: every flight requires expensive and fragile planes + lots of fuel, so the marginal cost of each trip is high. So it's a little more complicated to compare the costs than you suggest.

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

Uhm. Is this propaganda? https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/10/04/spain-short-and-medium-distance-trains-will-be-free-this-autumn-thanks-to-a-windfall-tax https://www.euronews.com/travel/2022/10/04/spain-short-and-m... https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/spain-free-train-trips https://www.lonelyplanet.com/articles/spain-free-train-trips https://nomadguide.eu/spain-free-trains-explained/ https://nomadguide.eu/spain-free-trains-explained/ https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/free-public-trains-in-spain-september https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/free-public-tra... https://www.traveloffpath.com/you-can-travel-through-spain-for-free-by-train-for-all-of-2023/ https://www.traveloffpath.com/you-can-travel-through-spain-f...

jeoqn 4y ago
That’s only for short distances (where you wouldn’t catch a plane) and it will only be this year.
- hinata08 4y ago
  it wasn't a discussion about price. It was about the service that is offered Price attracts new customers, quality loyalises them (Its a quote from a local rapper. Not train related, but it applies to any business) Bus is dirt cheap and ok for some trips. Plane is a bit more expensive. but I'm still willing to take the train (first class) for the extra convenience, especialy when I cross the country several times over a weekend. Also, plane is only kinda cheap when you book it a long time ago and for peculiar hours and dates. It gets really expensive last minute or on days when demand increases, while train companies can just scale up the number of seats by using more carriages