4 ms·

I’m as anti-CCP and pro “buy local” as they come (or at least pretty far down the path) But they’ve kind-of won… I just can’t feasibly avoid China with my pock

I’m as anti-CCP and pro “buy local” as they come (or at least pretty far down the path) But they’ve kind-of won… I just can’t feasibly avoid China with my pocketbook every single day. I have no idea where to get a (usable) phone / computer that isn’t touching on them at some level. That company down the street that sells me a beer and a burger, well I guarantee they’ve got an add of Made in China. They’ve sadly outplayed us (or our shit heel political and business elite) to the point of overly tight integration.

scottLobster 4y ago
Meh, Chinese labor is already more expensive than equivalent Mexican labor (at least from an American perspective). They're running on inertia at this point. Might take a decade or two to relocate the industrial plant, but it'll shift on cost alone given enough time.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Nevermark 4y ago
  Replacing complex industrial centers is FAR more difficult, and costly to customers, than swapping out workers in one country for another. Lower wages were an advantage. But the Chinese have leveraged that into other lasting advantages. Not just inertia.
notch656c 4y ago
America just moved their slavery elsewhere and got the CCP to administer it. Out of sight, out of mind, get me my iphone while the plebs desperately jump out 5th story factory windows.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  Give us an alternative to our Chinese-made computers, smart phones, etc. that isn't "don't get them," because that's kind of absurd in the modern era. If you have an alternative I'm all ears. You're destroying the world and exploiting communities every time you turn on a light switch or ride motorized transport. Every package you order online is part of the problem. Should I give you a high-minded lecture with no alternatives as well?
  - notch656c 4y ago
    And in some regions of 18th century America there was no reasonable immediate alternative to survive without buying goods produced by negro slaves, so it would have been pointless to point out the situation. I'm a bad guy too. happier? Maybe the world would be a better place with more high minded lectures now and again, so I'm all ears.
    - Forgeties79 4y ago
      I don't mind being told I'm doing something bad but critique without a solution is pointless. It's easy to tear folks down, it's hard to build. You're taking the easy route while looking down on us as if you don't willingly participate in suffering for the same reasons we do. It's not morally permissible, but let's not pretend you're 1) any better or 2) proposing any meaningful solutions.
      - notch656c 4y ago
        If you asked me the solution it starts with the most influenceable and likely allies, such as Uyghurs, who already have armed groups that have a chance of extracting at least one, two people from this kind of tyrannical relationship with the CCP. I don't think the picture starts with saving everyone exploited but rather just one, two persons at a time and let the witnesses decide how to proceed. Currently they are a designated terrorist organization so if I gave you any actionable advice I would end up in jail. Perhaps the first step is an American may be to solicit these self defense organizations to be removed from the designated list so an American may even discuss what could be done without suffering a long prison sentence.
        Forgeties79 4y ago
        I am clearly talking about our consumption habits. Not how to start/assist an armed revolution.
        notch656c 4y ago
toss1 4y ago
>>I have no idea where to get a (usable) phone / computer Samsung is Korean, and does much of their production in Vietnam, none in China AFAICT. They have a pretty broad line from premium down to good enough value that I've seen my provider offering multiple models for free (as in beer) with the phone plan. You can certainly get an older/refurb premium model for cheap. Yes, they have outplayed us so far, but that tide is changing fast. Obviously, the big govt & biz players must drive it, but we can do our part. Yes, there's a billion civilians unwillingly living under CCP's despotism, but the best we can do for them now is to not do things that support that system. The Great Experiment has utterly failed. The generous idea that open trade and exchange would bring open democratic systems turned out to be false, it only empowered the autocrats, who are now on the expansion warpath (see Ukraine and Straits of Taiwan, this minute). Obviously we can't yet be absolutist about it, but just making the effort on everything we buy, try to shift it to a substitute from ANYWHERE else. If you can, great, and if not, next time there probably will be one.
- deleted 4y ago
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scottLobster 4y ago

Meh, Chinese labor is already more expensive than equivalent Mexican labor (at least from an American perspective). They're running on inertia at this point. Might take a decade or two to relocate the industrial plant, but it'll shift on cost alone given enough time.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Nevermark 4y ago
Replacing complex industrial centers is FAR more difficult, and costly to customers, than swapping out workers in one country for another. Lower wages were an advantage. But the Chinese have leveraged that into other lasting advantages. Not just inertia.

notch656c 4y ago

America just moved their slavery elsewhere and got the CCP to administer it. Out of sight, out of mind, get me my iphone while the plebs desperately jump out 5th story factory windows.

Forgeties79 4y ago
Give us an alternative to our Chinese-made computers, smart phones, etc. that isn't "don't get them," because that's kind of absurd in the modern era. If you have an alternative I'm all ears. You're destroying the world and exploiting communities every time you turn on a light switch or ride motorized transport. Every package you order online is part of the problem. Should I give you a high-minded lecture with no alternatives as well?
- notch656c 4y ago
  And in some regions of 18th century America there was no reasonable immediate alternative to survive without buying goods produced by negro slaves, so it would have been pointless to point out the situation. I'm a bad guy too. happier? Maybe the world would be a better place with more high minded lectures now and again, so I'm all ears.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    I don't mind being told I'm doing something bad but critique without a solution is pointless. It's easy to tear folks down, it's hard to build. You're taking the easy route while looking down on us as if you don't willingly participate in suffering for the same reasons we do. It's not morally permissible, but let's not pretend you're 1) any better or 2) proposing any meaningful solutions.
    - notch656c 4y ago
      If you asked me the solution it starts with the most influenceable and likely allies, such as Uyghurs, who already have armed groups that have a chance of extracting at least one, two people from this kind of tyrannical relationship with the CCP. I don't think the picture starts with saving everyone exploited but rather just one, two persons at a time and let the witnesses decide how to proceed. Currently they are a designated terrorist organization so if I gave you any actionable advice I would end up in jail. Perhaps the first step is an American may be to solicit these self defense organizations to be removed from the designated list so an American may even discuss what could be done without suffering a long prison sentence.
      - Forgeties79 4y ago
        I am clearly talking about our consumption habits. Not how to start/assist an armed revolution.
        notch656c 4y ago

toss1 4y ago

>>I have no idea where to get a (usable) phone / computer Samsung is Korean, and does much of their production in Vietnam, none in China AFAICT. They have a pretty broad line from premium down to good enough value that I've seen my provider offering multiple models for free (as in beer) with the phone plan. You can certainly get an older/refurb premium model for cheap. Yes, they have outplayed us so far, but that tide is changing fast. Obviously, the big govt & biz players must drive it, but we can do our part. Yes, there's a billion civilians unwillingly living under CCP's despotism, but the best we can do for them now is to not do things that support that system. The Great Experiment has utterly failed. The generous idea that open trade and exchange would bring open democratic systems turned out to be false, it only empowered the autocrats, who are now on the expansion warpath (see Ukraine and Straits of Taiwan, this minute). Obviously we can't yet be absolutist about it, but just making the effort on everything we buy, try to shift it to a substitute from ANYWHERE else. If you can, great, and if not, next time there probably will be one.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]