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> 1. SF fixes the crime problem so its safe to be downtown. This requires many policy changes. This won't work, because this is a meme. SF had an uptick in cr

by ajross 4y ago

> 1. SF fixes the crime problem so its safe to be downtown. This requires many policy changes. This won't work, because this is a meme. SF had an uptick in crime during the pandemic like most urban areas did, and it's slowly receding durnig the recovery as it is elsewhere. But a lot of people have decided, based largely on reporting in partisan news, that somehow this is a unique problem due to an out of control woke city government. And it's not. Here are some statistics showing the rates rise and fall: https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rate-and-property-crime-rate https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rat... Since you mention safety, maybe you want to look at violent crime stats only? This site of "most violent cities" looks credible, and points out correctly that SF doesn't even make the list. Oakland across the bay does, so maybe that counts. https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-violent-cities-in-america https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-city-rankings/most-viol... But then Oakland sits well down the list, behind such wreched hives of scum and villainy as Indianapolis, Little Rock, and the Mos Eisley of North America: St Louis, Missouri. Just stop, basically. It's just a meme. It's false, and it's leading people to some very weird conclusions (e.g. the "many policy changes" you're demanding to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist).

gibsonf1 4y ago
I live here and observe, it's reality, and its true other cities share this reality, and other's don't. Those that do share this problem have very different policies than cities that don't. The problem with just thinking this is normal, a meme, and not caused by bad policies at the city and state level, means it will just get worse, and more people will leave, and the outcome of this is not good. Better to acknowledge that policies specifically about crime and police have had devastating effects on SF and continue unabated now. I for one would like SF to be the great place it was before these policy changes, and therefore not have to leave.
- ajross 4y ago
  > I for one would like SF to be the great place it was before these policy changes Then you'll need to find some way to quantify what it is that you're talking about, because using words like "crime", "safe", etc... don't correlate and aren't what you mean. I'll just say it: is it homelessness? It's probably visible homelessness, right? We used to push these people out of public spaces and now we don't.
- alpineidyll3 4y ago
  Besides the policy, the easy climate to be homeless definitely causes this problem to accumulate in SF moreso than say, Duluth. In Austin there is ample money to deal with homelessness but little action. Politicians tend to avoid thorny problems. Unfortunately this is a problem of survivorship. If the homeless were out of sight, no one would ever complain about them.
whateveracct 4y ago
I think a lot of HNers are a bit too soft to live in cities to begin with. Apparently seeing needles on the ground or - gasp - drug use across the street triggers their fight-or-flight response.

by ajross 4y ago

gibsonf1 4y ago

I live here and observe, it's reality, and its true other cities share this reality, and other's don't. Those that do share this problem have very different policies than cities that don't. The problem with just thinking this is normal, a meme, and not caused by bad policies at the city and state level, means it will just get worse, and more people will leave, and the outcome of this is not good. Better to acknowledge that policies specifically about crime and police have had devastating effects on SF and continue unabated now. I for one would like SF to be the great place it was before these policy changes, and therefore not have to leave.

ajross 4y ago
> I for one would like SF to be the great place it was before these policy changes Then you'll need to find some way to quantify what it is that you're talking about, because using words like "crime", "safe", etc... don't correlate and aren't what you mean. I'll just say it: is it homelessness? It's probably visible homelessness, right? We used to push these people out of public spaces and now we don't.
alpineidyll3 4y ago
Besides the policy, the easy climate to be homeless definitely causes this problem to accumulate in SF moreso than say, Duluth. In Austin there is ample money to deal with homelessness but little action. Politicians tend to avoid thorny problems. Unfortunately this is a problem of survivorship. If the homeless were out of sight, no one would ever complain about them.

whateveracct 4y ago

I think a lot of HNers are a bit too soft to live in cities to begin with. Apparently seeing needles on the ground or - gasp - drug use across the street triggers their fight-or-flight response.