7 ms·

Just another reminder that if you are in any way doing business in China, you are helping the despots who made disappear Cao Zhixin and all her fellow vigil att

• Pulcinella 4y ago
  Unfortunately there is little to no real ethical consumption under the current economic systems of the world (at least in the developed world). E.g. my mere existence in the USA funds the actions of the federal government and military. It is not my intention to legitimize actions you speak against (I.e. “there are none without sin” is not an invitation to sin your heart out). I just want to remind everyone that even true statements and facts can nevertheless be used as propaganda (I.e. focus on the bad things our enemies our doing, not that we are doing). I have no doubt that on the Chinese equivalent of hacker news there are people saying that doing any business in the USA is helping the US imperial war machine that has violently over thrown many governments, disappears people into Guantanamo Bay, etc.
  • winReInstall 4y ago
    The opening wage gap since the 70s have pathed the way for this. Raising wages could have paid for free produced products, but the haves decided that freedom for the have-nots has a price point.
  • josephcsible 4y ago
    You'd have to be out of your mind to think the US government/military does even 1% as much bad stuff as the CCP/PLA does.
    • snapcaster 4y ago
      Are you joking? Do you mean "to its own citizens"? I just don't see how you can claim the US military has done less than 1% of the "bad stuff" the CCP does considering they haven't invaded dozens of countries like the US. Can you explain your comment?
    • mardifoufs 4y ago
      As long as you ignore the absolute chaos and mayhem caused by the US in the middle east for the past 2-3 decades... sure?
• theowawwyaansn 4y ago
  I kept using 10y laptop to avoid giving my money to China. I will buy parts made not in China to assemble PC when it breaks down. I don't know how Americans support the evil CCP after knowing it's exporting fentanal which ends up killing 100k young people per year. America doesn't care about its workers it seems
  • scottLobster 4y ago
    Uh, sticking it to the CCP is the one issue that brings Democrats and Republicans together: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/09/28/some-americans-views-of-china-turned-more-negative-after-2020-but-others-became-more-positive/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/09/28/some-americ... If you're demanding an immediate, national economic decoupling on moral grounds, well that's just not a good idea for a whole host of reason. Would produce a lot more suffering than it would prevent.
    • woooooo 4y ago
      Amazing to watch the trends skyrocket after 2018 when the media started turning against China. I suppose it's possible that all of those people are deeply clued into the details of Xi's increasing authoritarianism, but it seems more likely that we're just thinking what we're told to think.
    • uoaei 4y ago
      As long as the attitude remains "sticking it" to anyone, welcome to WWIII. We saw what happened when we left Afghanistan. The Blob got so antsy they couldn't help themselves from instigating Russia and the war in Ukraine, not to mention all the coups in South and Central America over the past couple years. Idle hands are the Devil's playthings. There are strong, institutional forces that inevitabilize (word?) conflicts profitable for military contractors. This is the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower was warning us about.
• maoista 4y ago
  I’m as anti-CCP and pro “buy local” as they come (or at least pretty far down the path) But they’ve kind-of won… I just can’t feasibly avoid China with my pocketbook every single day. I have no idea where to get a (usable) phone / computer that isn’t touching on them at some level. That company down the street that sells me a beer and a burger, well I guarantee they’ve got an add of Made in China. They’ve sadly outplayed us (or our shit heel political and business elite) to the point of overly tight integration.
  • scottLobster 4y ago
    Meh, Chinese labor is already more expensive than equivalent Mexican labor (at least from an American perspective). They're running on inertia at this point. Might take a decade or two to relocate the industrial plant, but it'll shift on cost alone given enough time.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • Nevermark 4y ago
      Replacing complex industrial centers is FAR more difficult, and costly to customers, than swapping out workers in one country for another. Lower wages were an advantage. But the Chinese have leveraged that into other lasting advantages. Not just inertia.
  • notch656c 4y ago
    America just moved their slavery elsewhere and got the CCP to administer it. Out of sight, out of mind, get me my iphone while the plebs desperately jump out 5th story factory windows.
    • Forgeties79 4y ago
      Give us an alternative to our Chinese-made computers, smart phones, etc. that isn't "don't get them," because that's kind of absurd in the modern era. If you have an alternative I'm all ears. You're destroying the world and exploiting communities every time you turn on a light switch or ride motorized transport. Every package you order online is part of the problem. Should I give you a high-minded lecture with no alternatives as well?
• jeoqn 4y ago
  Might is right. Even if I don’t like the result, I respect the natural order of things. The opposite is anarchy.
  • notch656c 4y ago
    That's a pretty compelling argument for anarchism.
  • steve76 4y ago
    [dead]
  • elefanten 4y ago
    Yeah, you have that perfectly backwards. "Might is right" implies the most powerful entity has 'the right' to do what it wants on the basis of the ability to assert it. That it cannot be bound or constrained by rules / laws. And all other conflicts also reduce to "which entity is more powerful". So, by the time you go down the entity list from most to least powerful, there is no room for rule of law to bind any given actor. And hence it is anarchy.
    • jeoqn 4y ago
      It seems you are saying that authoritarianism is anarchy. Which sounds absurd.
      • elefanten 4y ago
        You asserted three very distinct claims as equivalent, none of which included authoritarianism. Authoritarianism is not "might is right". The authority at the top does not extend the 'right' of might to agents in the middle of the hierarchy. They are bound by the authority's will in their behavior towards their own power-inferiors.
• pphysch 4y ago
  All of this except Julian Assange, ethnic cleansing of Yemenis, Palestinians, threatened ICC, flattened Iraq & Libya, ongoing looting of Syria, etc. Barely scratching the surface. There are no "good guys". The world is not divided into good vs. evil, as much as our Western worldviews are conditioned that way. There is zero moral difference between supporting businesses backed by Beijing or Washington. There is a moral benefit to not being wildly xenophobic on the internet, however.
  • toss1 4y ago
    You really think there is zero difference between Beijing (or Moscow, or Tehran) v Washington? Try going to live there and hold up a protest sign against whatever is the biggest anti-govt issue of the day. In any of the first three, you'll end up in jail for a fortnight to a decade, depending on the climate. In Washington, The worse you'll get is a "move along" if you are blocking traffic. Or try being a neighboring country, like Taiwan. Right this minute, China is threatening it with its air force, navy, and army all harassing or doing target practice in it's direction. Hong Kong has lost ALL of the freedoms that were internationally agreed. All other neighbors are under varying degrees of threat & coercion. Meanwhile, Mexico, Caribbean islands, or Canada have trivial border checks and even Cuba have zero worries of any invasion. The world really is divided between autocracy and democracy. It may or may not be "good vs evil", but there is an absolutely critical difference. There are people who want to live a self-determined life free of coercion, and want a government determined by the people and not some tyrant. There are others who want to on a local level, be the bully and steal your lunch money, and on a geopolitical scale, rule and take everything. This is a fight everywhere from the local level to be free, to the national level where abusers, bullies, crooks, and autocrats try to take over the reigns of democracy (and they recently succeeded in Hungary, Turkey), and internationally where the autocracies like China, Russia, Iran, NK, etc. are in expansionist. Vladimir Lenin had a term for people who didn't understand the difference — "Useful Idiots". People who don't get it, and will happily do things helpful to their autocratic intentions, out of what they think are good intentions. You are in this territory, and should stop deluding yourself.
    • GAN_Game 4y ago
• yorwba 4y ago
  > Just another reminder that if you are in any way doing business in China, you are helping the despots That may be true, but don't forget that you're helping ordinary people like Cao Zhixin as well. When you're buying stuff made in China, only a small part of the money you pay is captured as taxes by the government; the rest goes to other people, improving their livelihoods. Of course the same is true when you buy things made in other countries; it'll just be a different group reaping the benefits. So bettering people's lives is not a good reason to prefer products made in China, but it's also not a good reason to avoid them either.
  • toss1 4y ago
    It isn't about the flow of money, it is about the flow of power. Even if some of your purchase winds up in the pockets of ordinary Chinese, it does nothing to help them get out from out from under autocratic rule. That's the point — the Great Experiment failed. It would be fantastic to free the billion++ people of China, and we thought that open exchange would do it, but it only empowered their rulers and now threatens us. The best we can do is to strongly oppose that government and the society running under it (and yes, that this will end up benefiting others in other countries who are already overlooked, that is also a good thing).