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You make them sound like saints. They are not, and they have a history of being less scrupulous than some of these other companies. Here's just a small example

You make them sound like saints. They are not, and they have a history of being less scrupulous than some of these other companies. Here's just a small example of what they're capable of when their obsession for secrecy and control makes them flex their corporate muscle: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/09/07/iphone.5.probe/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/mobile/09/07/iphone.5.probe/ind... And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China which has always had persistent labor-abuse issues[0], the Chinese government boosting iPhone production with child slave labor, and all the many other scandals they've been involved with. I really have no idea how anyone would get the notion that they are any better than the rest of the pack. Perhaps their upbeat pristine presentations, live from Cupertino. They should broadcast one from their sweatshops in Shenzhen. Some of the highschool kids they pressed into 11 hour shifts to assemble their iPhones could sing the praise of Tim Cook: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/21/apple-iphone-x-reportedly-assembled-by-illegal-student-labor.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/21/apple-iphone-x-reportedly-as... [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... EDIT: clarified some comments and added better sources.

desro 4y ago
Curious about where you source any Fair Trade silicon you might be using?
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Thousand metric tons a year Russia 580 Brazil 390 Norway 350 United States 310 France 120 Iceland 110 Malaysia 80 Bhutan 70 Kazakhstan 67 India 60 Spain 58 Canada
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- NeverFade 4y ago
  I'm not pretending Apple is worse than the rest of the industry. I'm refuting GP's blanket statement that they are much better.
threeseed 4y ago
> And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China where employees kill themselves an awful lot, the Chinese government boosting iPhone production with child slave labor, and all the many other scandals they've been involved with. This tired argument again. Apple has always led the industry in their auditing of their supply chain and taking proactive steps to address illegal and unethical behaviour. There will always be mistakes but it's how you deal with them that counts. If you're going to call Foxconn a sweatshop then arguably Amazon, Tesla etc should be called them as well.
- NeverFade 4y ago
  > Apple has always led the industry in their auditing of their supply chain and taking proactive steps to address illegal and unethical behaviour. Based on what data? The workers staged massive protests just a couple of months ago: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in-china-rocked-by-fresh-worker-unrest.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in... Foxconn has repeatedly had issues with labor abuse: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... 5 years ago it was the massive child-slave-labor scandal, which I suppose is what you refer to as "mistakes happen". Apple chose to continue to use Foxconn for production, even though they had similar scandals before and after the child-slave-labor one, until our present day. That's not a "mistake". Apple is deliberately choosing to use a producer which has had persistent issues with labor abuse, some of which were as serious as pressing schoolchildren into 11 hour shifts of slave labor. Let's face reality here: Apple is using Foxconn because they produce their products quickly and cheaply. They don't care about the abuse as long as it makes more cheap gadgets with fat profit margins. They aren't saints, nor better than other companies in their position. > If you're going to call Foxconn a sweatshop then arguably Amazon, Tesla etc should be called them as well. I never said Apple is worse than the rest of the industry. I refuted the notion that they are far better, and the overall halo of sainthood hung over them in this thread.
petesergeant 4y ago
> where employees kill themselves an awful lot Is that true? Last I read[0] "the suicide rate was comparable to its host country’s". 0: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-l...
- licebmi__at__ 4y ago
  I have no idea of the data, but is suicide evenly distributed on society? I mean, it’s mostly a topic, but I expect more suicide from unemployed, disabled or old people, not employed adults.
- NeverFade 4y ago
  I clarified the comment, since suicide rates aren't the only factor by which to judge or point out the issues at Foxconn. Foxconn had a long list of labor abuse[0], and apparently they still do given large-scale worker protests last November[1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in-china-rocked-by-fresh-worker-unrest.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in...
dmitriid 4y ago
> And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China which has always had persistent labor-abuse issues[0] Ah yes. Foxconn. The company that only produces products for Apple. And Amazon And Google And Sony And Google And Microsoft And Intel And Fiat Chrysler And ... And yet, only Apple is held accountable, and only Apple publishes regular audit reports on worker conditions etc.

desro 4y ago

Curious about where you source any Fair Trade silicon you might be using?

ipaddr 4y ago
Thousand metric tons a year Russia 580 Brazil 390 Norway 350 United States 310 France 120 Iceland 110 Malaysia 80 Bhutan 70 Kazakhstan 67 India 60 Spain 58 Canada
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
NeverFade 4y ago
I'm not pretending Apple is worse than the rest of the industry. I'm refuting GP's blanket statement that they are much better.

threeseed 4y ago

> And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China where employees kill themselves an awful lot, the Chinese government boosting iPhone production with child slave labor, and all the many other scandals they've been involved with. This tired argument again. Apple has always led the industry in their auditing of their supply chain and taking proactive steps to address illegal and unethical behaviour. There will always be mistakes but it's how you deal with them that counts. If you're going to call Foxconn a sweatshop then arguably Amazon, Tesla etc should be called them as well.

NeverFade 4y ago
> Apple has always led the industry in their auditing of their supply chain and taking proactive steps to address illegal and unethical behaviour. Based on what data? The workers staged massive protests just a couple of months ago: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in-china-rocked-by-fresh-worker-unrest.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in... Foxconn has repeatedly had issues with labor abuse: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... 5 years ago it was the massive child-slave-labor scandal, which I suppose is what you refer to as "mistakes happen". Apple chose to continue to use Foxconn for production, even though they had similar scandals before and after the child-slave-labor one, until our present day. That's not a "mistake". Apple is deliberately choosing to use a producer which has had persistent issues with labor abuse, some of which were as serious as pressing schoolchildren into 11 hour shifts of slave labor. Let's face reality here: Apple is using Foxconn because they produce their products quickly and cheaply. They don't care about the abuse as long as it makes more cheap gadgets with fat profit margins. They aren't saints, nor better than other companies in their position. > If you're going to call Foxconn a sweatshop then arguably Amazon, Tesla etc should be called them as well. I never said Apple is worse than the rest of the industry. I refuted the notion that they are far better, and the overall halo of sainthood hung over them in this thread.

petesergeant 4y ago

> where employees kill themselves an awful lot Is that true? Last I read[0] "the suicide rate was comparable to its host country’s". 0: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-life-death-forbidden-city-longhua-suicide-apple-iphone-brian-merchant-one-device-extract https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/18/foxconn-l...

licebmi__at__ 4y ago
I have no idea of the data, but is suicide evenly distributed on society? I mean, it’s mostly a topic, but I expect more suicide from unemployed, disabled or old people, not employed adults.
NeverFade 4y ago
I clarified the comment, since suicide rates aren't the only factor by which to judge or point out the issues at Foxconn. Foxconn had a long list of labor abuse[0], and apparently they still do given large-scale worker protests last November[1]. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn-worker-conditions.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/11/business/dealbook/foxconn... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in-china-rocked-by-fresh-worker-unrest.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/23/huge-foxconn-iphone-plant-in...

dmitriid 4y ago

> And we didn't even talk about their sweatshops in China which has always had persistent labor-abuse issues[0] Ah yes. Foxconn. The company that only produces products for Apple. And Amazon And Google And Sony And Google And Microsoft And Intel And Fiat Chrysler And ... And yet, only Apple is held accountable, and only Apple publishes regular audit reports on worker conditions etc.