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I'm not convinced this advantage is available to harness anymore. A small company can still outrun a larger company via less process, fewer internal entrenched

by jerf 4y ago

I'm not convinced this advantage is available to harness anymore. A small company can still outrun a larger company via less process, fewer internal entrenched interests, the ability to not have to worry as much about internationalization and other things you need to instantly address large markets and comply with various internal and external regulations, and you could continue this list for quite a while. But $LARGE_CORP, or at least one of the $LARGE_CORPs in your space, is just as likely to be using Python themselves anymore, or some other relatively nice language. Even the bad ol' languages from 2004 have cleaned themselves up a lot since then. There are some potential much more isolated advantages to be harnessed here and there in certain cases by using the correct language in place the wrong one has become entrenched, but I just don't think this particular delta is anywhere near as available, in general, as it used to be.

awb 4y ago
Another thing is that back in 2004, a larger % of code was hand written. So, choosing a new language didn’t come with as high a switching cost outside of learning a new syntax. Now, if you deviate from PHP, Python, Node, Rails, etc., to one of the new “esoteric” languages, you have to learn a new language, plus reinvent the wheel in a lot of areas that you’d otherwise be getting for free. So you have brilliant developers working in esoteric languages trying to complete 25-50% more code. Even if you can swim upstream fast enough to compete with highly competent devs working in a more popular language, then you get into hiring / onboarding challenges, documenting and debugging custom features (features that would otherwise be a “solved problem” in other languages), acquisition due diligence, etc., that persistently weighs against you.
- solatic 4y ago
  > Now, if you deviate... to one of the new “esoteric” languages, you have to... reinvent the wheel in a lot of areas that you’d otherwise be getting for free. I think this is the key concern. The #1 priority is how quickly Engineering can respond to business demands. Maybe the #1 priority instead ought to be culture, and that can be a great approach for Mittelstand-style/small-forever/bootstrapped businesses. But for venture-backed growth-at-all-costs businesses? Porting functionality to an esoteric language does not drive business value. Complain that you have difficulty hiring because you can't find engineers who know the esoteric language, and you're likely to get pressure from your investors to make boring technology choices instead.
bee_rider 4y ago
I’m confused by your comment; it seems like you are talking about the quality of the language, while the article was talking about using obscure languages as a signifier of programmer quality.

by jerf 4y ago

awb 4y ago

Another thing is that back in 2004, a larger % of code was hand written. So, choosing a new language didn’t come with as high a switching cost outside of learning a new syntax. Now, if you deviate from PHP, Python, Node, Rails, etc., to one of the new “esoteric” languages, you have to learn a new language, plus reinvent the wheel in a lot of areas that you’d otherwise be getting for free. So you have brilliant developers working in esoteric languages trying to complete 25-50% more code. Even if you can swim upstream fast enough to compete with highly competent devs working in a more popular language, then you get into hiring / onboarding challenges, documenting and debugging custom features (features that would otherwise be a “solved problem” in other languages), acquisition due diligence, etc., that persistently weighs against you.

solatic 4y ago
> Now, if you deviate... to one of the new “esoteric” languages, you have to... reinvent the wheel in a lot of areas that you’d otherwise be getting for free. I think this is the key concern. The #1 priority is how quickly Engineering can respond to business demands. Maybe the #1 priority instead ought to be culture, and that can be a great approach for Mittelstand-style/small-forever/bootstrapped businesses. But for venture-backed growth-at-all-costs businesses? Porting functionality to an esoteric language does not drive business value. Complain that you have difficulty hiring because you can't find engineers who know the esoteric language, and you're likely to get pressure from your investors to make boring technology choices instead.

bee_rider 4y ago

I’m confused by your comment; it seems like you are talking about the quality of the language, while the article was talking about using obscure languages as a signifier of programmer quality.