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People disapproving of remote work is so illogical. If the work can be done remotely as done effectively as IRL and the people are happier remote or hybrid, let

People disapproving of remote work is so illogical. If the work can be done remotely as done effectively as IRL and the people are happier remote or hybrid, let them do that.

black_13 4y ago
[dead]
Gigachad 4y ago
Same the other way. I preferred working in the office. WFH is isolating and often inefficient. Video calls just aren’t as good as face to face interactions. But most companies seem to have not renewed the lease on their offices so it’s becoming less of an available option.
- johnnymorgan 4y ago
  I find context matters with WFH/WIO and the balance comes, for me, when it's creative brainstorming or anything that requires a hands on, in the office is great but outside of that the office can be super distracting away from the core work. It really depends though on what type of role and personalities are coming together and I'm hopeful there will be a more innovative culture going forward.
- Buttons840 4y ago
  > Video calls just aren’t as good as face to face interactions. Hard disagree. You state it like it's a fact, but it's not. It's an opinion. Especially for programmers a remote meeting is often better. For example, 6 engineers can meet for an impromptu meeting, someone shares their screen, all 6 people can see the shared screen clearly, all 6 people can point at things on the person's screen, all 6 people can interactively sketch ideas at the same time on the same virtual whiteboard, everyone can keep their own copy of the code open and readable while seeing the shared screen right next to it, etc. There's a lot of good things about this that cannot be replicated in person.
  - rsfern 4y ago
    Hybrid can solve this, at our group meetings (physical science, not SWE) we’ll sometimes all have laptops up at the conference table to collaborate on a document or whatever. We have a large physical screen that I think is better than sharing a screen in video chat. Remote is ok, but as an introvert I sometimes find it harder to get a word in edgewise, and I already sometimes struggle with that during in person meetings. That and I feel like IRL conversations are somehow better for unstructured/lateral/creative thinking
- olliej 4y ago
  I have never encountered this supposed inefficiency of working from home, especially when you add in the many hours wasted commuting. I get that many people use the office as a primary source of socialization, others aren't able to communicate online effectively, and yet others like wasting time in meetings instead of working. It's obnoxious that those folk get priority, and the rest of us are forced to lose hours and hours our lives to needless commuting, and forced to have much worse working environments - the many varying approaches to "employees are livestock"/"open plan" have been demonstrated in every single study to be aggressively bad for productivity. Finally, by not having to go to the office I'm not being exposed constantly to asshole coworkers who come into the office while sick, or when they have clearly sick family members. One of the greatest things in the work from home experience of the few years is not catching various plagues from coworkers. I went multiple years without so much as a cold. Now I get to have forced exposure to those same coworkers that came in while sick in the past, so I have no trust that those who get covid won't come to the office to spread that plague around either. Seriously I'm fine if you want to waste time commuting and getting sick if you need the office to socialize, or if you aren't able to communicate effectively online. I just don't understand why everyone else should have their lives made worse just to support you.
  - jterrys 4y ago
    The single genuine inefficiency of working from home is that it exposes a person's lack of discipline. They become more productive when all distractions are removed so they're forced to focus on one task at the detriment of everything else. This turns into a form of self torture though, since the office is ripe with distractions that they have to power through to get their tasks done. But because they're not afforded the luxury of getting distracted by things they'd like, and they hate the office distractions, they'd rather be doing work. The overall experience is shitty in the end but at least they're getting some work done. It sucks for the rest of us though, because now the self flagellation needs to be extended and we're all victims of presumption. "Since I can't get work done at home, then surely others can't as well! They're just sitting at home doing nothing, like I would be doing! Everyone needs to come back to the office now!" Other than that, WFH was genuinely sucky for people with small children, because daycares were also closed during peak covid.
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  People forget about the scourge of the open office before the pandemic. Would be nice if RTO was paired with getting rid of those spaces that no one except management liked.

People disapproving of remote work is so illogical. If the work can be done remotely as done effectively as IRL and the people are happier remote or hybrid, let them do that.

black_13 4y ago

[dead]

Gigachad 4y ago

Same the other way. I preferred working in the office. WFH is isolating and often inefficient. Video calls just aren’t as good as face to face interactions. But most companies seem to have not renewed the lease on their offices so it’s becoming less of an available option.

johnnymorgan 4y ago
I find context matters with WFH/WIO and the balance comes, for me, when it's creative brainstorming or anything that requires a hands on, in the office is great but outside of that the office can be super distracting away from the core work. It really depends though on what type of role and personalities are coming together and I'm hopeful there will be a more innovative culture going forward.
Buttons840 4y ago
> Video calls just aren’t as good as face to face interactions. Hard disagree. You state it like it's a fact, but it's not. It's an opinion. Especially for programmers a remote meeting is often better. For example, 6 engineers can meet for an impromptu meeting, someone shares their screen, all 6 people can see the shared screen clearly, all 6 people can point at things on the person's screen, all 6 people can interactively sketch ideas at the same time on the same virtual whiteboard, everyone can keep their own copy of the code open and readable while seeing the shared screen right next to it, etc. There's a lot of good things about this that cannot be replicated in person.
- rsfern 4y ago
  Hybrid can solve this, at our group meetings (physical science, not SWE) we’ll sometimes all have laptops up at the conference table to collaborate on a document or whatever. We have a large physical screen that I think is better than sharing a screen in video chat. Remote is ok, but as an introvert I sometimes find it harder to get a word in edgewise, and I already sometimes struggle with that during in person meetings. That and I feel like IRL conversations are somehow better for unstructured/lateral/creative thinking
olliej 4y ago
I have never encountered this supposed inefficiency of working from home, especially when you add in the many hours wasted commuting. I get that many people use the office as a primary source of socialization, others aren't able to communicate online effectively, and yet others like wasting time in meetings instead of working. It's obnoxious that those folk get priority, and the rest of us are forced to lose hours and hours our lives to needless commuting, and forced to have much worse working environments - the many varying approaches to "employees are livestock"/"open plan" have been demonstrated in every single study to be aggressively bad for productivity. Finally, by not having to go to the office I'm not being exposed constantly to asshole coworkers who come into the office while sick, or when they have clearly sick family members. One of the greatest things in the work from home experience of the few years is not catching various plagues from coworkers. I went multiple years without so much as a cold. Now I get to have forced exposure to those same coworkers that came in while sick in the past, so I have no trust that those who get covid won't come to the office to spread that plague around either. Seriously I'm fine if you want to waste time commuting and getting sick if you need the office to socialize, or if you aren't able to communicate effectively online. I just don't understand why everyone else should have their lives made worse just to support you.
- jterrys 4y ago
  The single genuine inefficiency of working from home is that it exposes a person's lack of discipline. They become more productive when all distractions are removed so they're forced to focus on one task at the detriment of everything else. This turns into a form of self torture though, since the office is ripe with distractions that they have to power through to get their tasks done. But because they're not afforded the luxury of getting distracted by things they'd like, and they hate the office distractions, they'd rather be doing work. The overall experience is shitty in the end but at least they're getting some work done. It sucks for the rest of us though, because now the self flagellation needs to be extended and we're all victims of presumption. "Since I can't get work done at home, then surely others can't as well! They're just sitting at home doing nothing, like I would be doing! Everyone needs to come back to the office now!" Other than that, WFH was genuinely sucky for people with small children, because daycares were also closed during peak covid.
Apocryphon 4y ago
People forget about the scourge of the open office before the pandemic. Would be nice if RTO was paired with getting rid of those spaces that no one except management liked.