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One thing I have a hard time getting away from as a consumer is the delta in graphics quality between VR and a high-res display. Modern AAA games on a 32" 4k m

by lukev 4y ago

One thing I have a hard time getting away from as a consumer is the delta in graphics quality between VR and a high-res display. Modern AAA games on a 32" 4k monitor that I'm sitting right in front of are pretty damn beautiful and immersive. By comparison, anything in VR is low res and low poly. Of course this is a natural effect of the technical constraints* but the 3d and head-tracking aspects of VR seem less important to me than the crispness of a screen. * I can't find a plausible explanation for the absurdity of the graphics of (e.g.) Meta which despite an apparently unlimited budget can't muster graphics exceeding what I experienced on a 1024x768 on my Pentium II in highschool.

rolenthedeep 4y ago
My guess is that the metaverse has reduced quality so that it runs on the Quest headsets. They're basically just an android phone built into a headset, and they're capable of significantly less than a PC.
- tomxor 4y ago
  The "Metaverse" has way too much hype right now, IMO it's damaging to the current VR audience, which is gamers. I've tried the "Metaverse" and it's an absolutely awful half baked collection of vaugeley purposed games and sandboxes. But it's just one app on a quest, I uninstalled it and carried on using it for what it's meant for (gaming), rather than Zuckerbergs failed attempt at forcefully making it into some new market. > They're basically just an android phone built into a headset, and they're capable of significantly less than a PC. You're missing the value in these things, it's also capable of significantly more, because it's not all about how fast your GPU and CPU is. A lot of work has gone into taking commodity mobile technology and tightly integrating all of the sensors in a way which is low latency enough to make VR a pleasant experience rather than a horrifically sickening one.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    Metaverse is literally just AR and VR over the internet. It is not owned to tied to a single company. VRChat and RecRoom are also part of the metaverse. You can even consider Roblox as part of the metaverse since it has VR support. Apparently, Facebook’s marketing is so good that they’ve convinced most of the world, even techies, that they own and control the VR AR equivalent of the internet.
    - tomxor 4y ago
      Well it's not surprising since the company changed it's frickin name to "Meta". Regardless I'm pretty sure the parent's were all referring to Meta's Horizon worlds. > Metaverse is literally just AR and VR over the internet Not really, that's way to vague, it's come to mean something more specific. VR games existed first on VR and they are just games, often over the internet, they are much like games on PCs and Consoles but with an extended human interface and perception.
      - chaostheory 4y ago
        > I'm pretty sure the parent's were all referring to Meta's Horizon worlds. That’s my point. meta Horizon is not the entire metaverse. It wasnt even first, nor will it be the last destination on the metaverse > Not really, that's way to vague, it's come to mean something more specific. Actually, my description is straightforward and to the point. It’s your description of the metaverse that is vague.
        tomxor 4y ago
        You're right.
  - rolenthedeep 4y ago
    Part of my job is developing apps on the Quest 2. As a headset, it's bargain basement tier. The absolute minimum hardware you can get away with, plus some clever position tracking software. Everyone else does it better, at three times the price. It's the first consumer level headset at an acceptable cost/performance point. Nothing about it is particularly good, merely acceptable. And I'm pretty sure they're being sold below cost, FB is subsidizing them, hoping to sell you more ads in VR.
    - anonred 4y ago
      What are some examples of VR headsets with better inside-out tracking or hand tracking than the Quest 2? On the software side, is there a comparable standalone game library to the Quest Store and App Lab?
    - tomxor 4y ago
      > Everyone else does it better, at three times the price. Yes and this is the key part, it's the first affordable option. Also if you combine it with a PC then it's both affordable and decent quality > plus some clever position tracking software I don't get why everyone devalues this so much, the cost of new integration for something like this is high, once it's been done it's easier for others to follow, but how we got here wasn't just people throwing expensive hardware at the problem, it needs much more than that. > I'm pretty sure they're being sold below cost, FB is subsidizing them, hoping to sell you more ads in VR. They were selling it bellow cost, now they've added 100 $/£ to the price tag to put it above cost. Which was one of the last thing Carmack got them to do before he left. He didn't want the incentives to be messed up since a large free/sideloaded games ecosystem has emerged and it doesn't make sense to be at odds with that.
spoonjim 4y ago
It’s nothing to do with budget… it’s because humans can’t have a desktop PC and APC battery backup suspended on their neck.
tomxor 4y ago
You're mixing up two different things. You can have all those fancy graphics right now if you want them on a Quest2 or Vibe or whatever at almost 4k something resolution depending on how you measure it. You just hook it up to a PC and play a VR compatible game on Steam, then you get the power of whatever PC GPU you have. You are looking at the games that run standalone on the Quest2, they are stuck with a massively underclocked mobile GPU to make sure your head doesn't melt. Not all games are about graphics, and I find the most fun and replayable ones certainly aren't. That's where the standalone headset games have their place... The killer feature of these and the Quest2 in particular is that you just throw the headset on and pick up the controllers, it's like the gameboy of VR, no need to hook up external sensors, a gaming rig and a tether, instead you can stick it in your bag and use it almost anywhere. It depends what you want out of gaming, I haven't owned a console or "gaming PC" in 20 years, I was never a fan of the "wii" type games, I'm an old skool Doom and Quake guy, so I wasn't convinced about VR until I tried it, and yet now i'm one of those weirdos playing beat saber on expert. I don't care much for modern AAA graphics so their absence doesn't really bother me, I grew up seeing the incremental improvements and it's just more of the same to me, most AAA games all appear to be a small variation on the same mechanic, nothing much changes there. What interests me is novel game mechanics with replay value, graphics just need to be acceptable for that. I'm not after a "visual experience", that gets old real quick. But it's all subjective... just don't knock it until you give it a proper try.
chaostheory 4y ago
> I can't find a plausible explanation for the absurdity of the graphics of (e.g.) Meta A stand alone Meta Quest 2 runs on an ARM processor that’s weaker than Samsung’s flagship phones which are themselves weaker than iPhones. > By comparison, anything in VR is low res and low poly. That’s because you’ve completely ignored PCVR. VR visual fidelity is pretty good when it’s running on a PC that’s capable of VR. Just use VR headset, even the Quest 2, with a PC. SteamVR is 6 years old now.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Still, the lenses aren't good enough. Most mainstream VR headsets don't have text as a clear as your phone for example. For me the killer use case would be to use VR as a virtual desk, just create an infinite amount of windows/Linux displays, not some kind of crappy mobile browser like oculus does, though lenses and displays need to improve a lot to be clear like a normal multi display setup.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    The lenses are good enough on most headsets except for the ones from HTC. Have you actually used a new VR headset within the last 2-3 years?
    - jacooper 4y ago
      Yes, still not that sharp with chromatic abberation now and then(Quest 2)
- account42 4y ago
  Even PCVR is significantly lower resolution than non-VR, especially once you start talking about angular resolution instead of total pixels.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    It’s not noticeable depending on the PC, headset, and game. VR has progressed since 2016
bmicraft 4y ago
If you strapped a 4k monitor close enough to your face to match the FOV a good vr headset then you'd also start seeing pixels.
- account42 4y ago
  But that's not how to use a 4K monitor so it doesn't exactly invalidate the point: angular resolution of VR is much lower than non-VR. Or in layman's terms: VR pixels are huge.

by lukev 4y ago

rolenthedeep 4y ago

My guess is that the metaverse has reduced quality so that it runs on the Quest headsets. They're basically just an android phone built into a headset, and they're capable of significantly less than a PC.

tomxor 4y ago
The "Metaverse" has way too much hype right now, IMO it's damaging to the current VR audience, which is gamers. I've tried the "Metaverse" and it's an absolutely awful half baked collection of vaugeley purposed games and sandboxes. But it's just one app on a quest, I uninstalled it and carried on using it for what it's meant for (gaming), rather than Zuckerbergs failed attempt at forcefully making it into some new market. > They're basically just an android phone built into a headset, and they're capable of significantly less than a PC. You're missing the value in these things, it's also capable of significantly more, because it's not all about how fast your GPU and CPU is. A lot of work has gone into taking commodity mobile technology and tightly integrating all of the sensors in a way which is low latency enough to make VR a pleasant experience rather than a horrifically sickening one.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  Metaverse is literally just AR and VR over the internet. It is not owned to tied to a single company. VRChat and RecRoom are also part of the metaverse. You can even consider Roblox as part of the metaverse since it has VR support. Apparently, Facebook’s marketing is so good that they’ve convinced most of the world, even techies, that they own and control the VR AR equivalent of the internet.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    Well it's not surprising since the company changed it's frickin name to "Meta". Regardless I'm pretty sure the parent's were all referring to Meta's Horizon worlds. > Metaverse is literally just AR and VR over the internet Not really, that's way to vague, it's come to mean something more specific. VR games existed first on VR and they are just games, often over the internet, they are much like games on PCs and Consoles but with an extended human interface and perception.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      > I'm pretty sure the parent's were all referring to Meta's Horizon worlds. That’s my point. meta Horizon is not the entire metaverse. It wasnt even first, nor will it be the last destination on the metaverse > Not really, that's way to vague, it's come to mean something more specific. Actually, my description is straightforward and to the point. It’s your description of the metaverse that is vague.
      - tomxor 4y ago
        You're right.
- rolenthedeep 4y ago
  Part of my job is developing apps on the Quest 2. As a headset, it's bargain basement tier. The absolute minimum hardware you can get away with, plus some clever position tracking software. Everyone else does it better, at three times the price. It's the first consumer level headset at an acceptable cost/performance point. Nothing about it is particularly good, merely acceptable. And I'm pretty sure they're being sold below cost, FB is subsidizing them, hoping to sell you more ads in VR.
  - anonred 4y ago
    What are some examples of VR headsets with better inside-out tracking or hand tracking than the Quest 2? On the software side, is there a comparable standalone game library to the Quest Store and App Lab?
  - tomxor 4y ago
    > Everyone else does it better, at three times the price. Yes and this is the key part, it's the first affordable option. Also if you combine it with a PC then it's both affordable and decent quality > plus some clever position tracking software I don't get why everyone devalues this so much, the cost of new integration for something like this is high, once it's been done it's easier for others to follow, but how we got here wasn't just people throwing expensive hardware at the problem, it needs much more than that. > I'm pretty sure they're being sold below cost, FB is subsidizing them, hoping to sell you more ads in VR. They were selling it bellow cost, now they've added 100 $/£ to the price tag to put it above cost. Which was one of the last thing Carmack got them to do before he left. He didn't want the incentives to be messed up since a large free/sideloaded games ecosystem has emerged and it doesn't make sense to be at odds with that.

spoonjim 4y ago

It’s nothing to do with budget… it’s because humans can’t have a desktop PC and APC battery backup suspended on their neck.

tomxor 4y ago

You're mixing up two different things. You can have all those fancy graphics right now if you want them on a Quest2 or Vibe or whatever at almost 4k something resolution depending on how you measure it. You just hook it up to a PC and play a VR compatible game on Steam, then you get the power of whatever PC GPU you have. You are looking at the games that run standalone on the Quest2, they are stuck with a massively underclocked mobile GPU to make sure your head doesn't melt. Not all games are about graphics, and I find the most fun and replayable ones certainly aren't. That's where the standalone headset games have their place... The killer feature of these and the Quest2 in particular is that you just throw the headset on and pick up the controllers, it's like the gameboy of VR, no need to hook up external sensors, a gaming rig and a tether, instead you can stick it in your bag and use it almost anywhere. It depends what you want out of gaming, I haven't owned a console or "gaming PC" in 20 years, I was never a fan of the "wii" type games, I'm an old skool Doom and Quake guy, so I wasn't convinced about VR until I tried it, and yet now i'm one of those weirdos playing beat saber on expert. I don't care much for modern AAA graphics so their absence doesn't really bother me, I grew up seeing the incremental improvements and it's just more of the same to me, most AAA games all appear to be a small variation on the same mechanic, nothing much changes there. What interests me is novel game mechanics with replay value, graphics just need to be acceptable for that. I'm not after a "visual experience", that gets old real quick. But it's all subjective... just don't knock it until you give it a proper try.

chaostheory 4y ago

> I can't find a plausible explanation for the absurdity of the graphics of (e.g.) Meta A stand alone Meta Quest 2 runs on an ARM processor that’s weaker than Samsung’s flagship phones which are themselves weaker than iPhones. > By comparison, anything in VR is low res and low poly. That’s because you’ve completely ignored PCVR. VR visual fidelity is pretty good when it’s running on a PC that’s capable of VR. Just use VR headset, even the Quest 2, with a PC. SteamVR is 6 years old now.

jacooper 4y ago
Still, the lenses aren't good enough. Most mainstream VR headsets don't have text as a clear as your phone for example. For me the killer use case would be to use VR as a virtual desk, just create an infinite amount of windows/Linux displays, not some kind of crappy mobile browser like oculus does, though lenses and displays need to improve a lot to be clear like a normal multi display setup.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  The lenses are good enough on most headsets except for the ones from HTC. Have you actually used a new VR headset within the last 2-3 years?
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Yes, still not that sharp with chromatic abberation now and then(Quest 2)
account42 4y ago
Even PCVR is significantly lower resolution than non-VR, especially once you start talking about angular resolution instead of total pixels.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  It’s not noticeable depending on the PC, headset, and game. VR has progressed since 2016

bmicraft 4y ago

If you strapped a 4k monitor close enough to your face to match the FOV a good vr headset then you'd also start seeing pixels.

account42 4y ago
But that's not how to use a 4K monitor so it doesn't exactly invalidate the point: angular resolution of VR is much lower than non-VR. Or in layman's terms: VR pixels are huge.