4 ms·

True, there are some obvious exceptions. But suppose I buy a vacuum cleaner and use it for a month and don't like it, doesn't matter how much I used it, I can r

by jb1991 4y ago

True, there are some obvious exceptions. But suppose I buy a vacuum cleaner and use it for a month and don't like it, doesn't matter how much I used it, I can return it in the EU.

eps 4y ago
Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for that?
- jb1991 4y ago
  My own life experience in the EU is my source.
  - eps 4y ago
    Yeah, I assumed as much that's why I asked. Your top comment implied that it's a norm in the EU. It is not. It's very much retailer-specific.
    - tremon 4y ago
      Here are the B2C rules for e-commerce in the EU, which are supposed to be the norm: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/selling-goods-services/ecommerce-distance-selling/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/selling-... . Anything beyond that is retailer-specific. Note that this concerns all forms of remote selling, i.e. phone sales, webshops goods, but even door-to-door vending -- basically anything that does not involve the customer setting foot in your brick-and-mortar store. > When can your customer withdraw from the contract? If you have given all the necessary information about the right to withdraw, your customer has 14 days to withdraw from the contract - without any penalty and without having to give any reason: For goods – this means 14 days after delivery For services – this means 14 days after the contract was concluded > What are your obligations after the consumer withdraws from the contract? You must reimburse the money received from your customer (or cancel their payment) within 14 days of being notified they are withdrawing. You may withhold this reimbursement until you have received the goods back from the customer, or at least received evidence they have actually sent them. > Who pays what? The Customer pays the cost of returning the goods (unless you failed to inform them of this in advance — in which case you will be liable for these costs).
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      It is a norm in the EU. Not all countries adopt all of this at the same time but it definitely is a norm.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
The law doesn't seem to cover that, or one pretty large retailer in France is ostensibly not abiding by it. Darty.com says that you can only return an item if it can be resold as new. Basically, you may only open it to inspect it. If there are signs of use, you won't get the full refund. Other retailers, like Amazon, may not care about this and refund fully no questions asked. But in my experience, Amazon is pretty unique in doing this.
- jb1991 4y ago
  If you are in Europe and you buy it online, then the retailer is obligated by law to accept the return. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua... >If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification. In my experience, all retailers (have not tried in France, though) follow this law.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I think the issue turns around the "any reason" part. It doesn't say anything about the condition of the item, which, in my opinion, is the crux of the issue. Unfortunately, I only have French references. The actual French law is at [0]. It says that the buyer is on the hook for any depreciation resulting from handling, apart from what is necessary to determine the characteristics and good working condition of the goods. So opening the vacuum box to see that it's not missing a part or something is fine. Vacuuming your house for 2 weeks is probably not. "Determine the characteristics" is ambiguous to me, so it's not clear where the line is. For example, Zalando, an online clothes retailer, will accept returns for garments that have been "tried on" but not "worn" [1]. LDLC, an online electronics retailer, will accept returns for items in "original condition and packaging". I expect that if I buy a mouse, use it for a week and there are marks on the pads, they won't accept the return. [2] [0] https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000044563188 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000... [1] https://www.zalando.fr/aide/Retour-and-Remboursement/Conditions-de-retour.html https://www.zalando.fr/aide/Retour-and-Remboursement/Conditi... [2] https://www.ldlc.com/aide/234-politique-de-reprise/ https://www.ldlc.com/aide/234-politique-de-reprise/
thirdsun 4y ago
Not true. It may work. However your return period should serve as a way to test the item similar to what would be possible in store. Using a vacuum cleaner for a month may result in a partial refund if there are clear signs of usage. There are limits to what is considered appropriate testing.

by jb1991 4y ago

True, there are some obvious exceptions. But suppose I buy a vacuum cleaner and use it for a month and don't like it, doesn't matter how much I used it, I can return it in the EU.

eps 4y ago

Not that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for that?

jb1991 4y ago
My own life experience in the EU is my source.
- eps 4y ago
  Yeah, I assumed as much that's why I asked. Your top comment implied that it's a norm in the EU. It is not. It's very much retailer-specific.
  - tremon 4y ago
    Here are the B2C rules for e-commerce in the EU, which are supposed to be the norm: https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/selling-goods-services/ecommerce-distance-selling/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/selling-in-eu/selling-... . Anything beyond that is retailer-specific. Note that this concerns all forms of remote selling, i.e. phone sales, webshops goods, but even door-to-door vending -- basically anything that does not involve the customer setting foot in your brick-and-mortar store. > When can your customer withdraw from the contract? If you have given all the necessary information about the right to withdraw, your customer has 14 days to withdraw from the contract - without any penalty and without having to give any reason: For goods – this means 14 days after delivery For services – this means 14 days after the contract was concluded > What are your obligations after the consumer withdraws from the contract? You must reimburse the money received from your customer (or cancel their payment) within 14 days of being notified they are withdrawing. You may withhold this reimbursement until you have received the goods back from the customer, or at least received evidence they have actually sent them. > Who pays what? The Customer pays the cost of returning the goods (unless you failed to inform them of this in advance — in which case you will be liable for these costs).
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    It is a norm in the EU. Not all countries adopt all of this at the same time but it definitely is a norm.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

The law doesn't seem to cover that, or one pretty large retailer in France is ostensibly not abiding by it. Darty.com says that you can only return an item if it can be resold as new. Basically, you may only open it to inspect it. If there are signs of use, you won't get the full refund. Other retailers, like Amazon, may not care about this and refund fully no questions asked. But in my experience, Amazon is pretty unique in doing this.

jb1991 4y ago
If you are in Europe and you buy it online, then the retailer is obligated by law to accept the return. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua... >If you bought a product or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and without a justification. In my experience, all retailers (have not tried in France, though) follow this law.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  I think the issue turns around the "any reason" part. It doesn't say anything about the condition of the item, which, in my opinion, is the crux of the issue. Unfortunately, I only have French references. The actual French law is at [0]. It says that the buyer is on the hook for any depreciation resulting from handling, apart from what is necessary to determine the characteristics and good working condition of the goods. So opening the vacuum box to see that it's not missing a part or something is fine. Vacuuming your house for 2 weeks is probably not. "Determine the characteristics" is ambiguous to me, so it's not clear where the line is. For example, Zalando, an online clothes retailer, will accept returns for garments that have been "tried on" but not "worn" [1]. LDLC, an online electronics retailer, will accept returns for items in "original condition and packaging". I expect that if I buy a mouse, use it for a week and there are marks on the pads, they won't accept the return. [2] [0] https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI000044563188 https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000... [1] https://www.zalando.fr/aide/Retour-and-Remboursement/Conditions-de-retour.html https://www.zalando.fr/aide/Retour-and-Remboursement/Conditi... [2] https://www.ldlc.com/aide/234-politique-de-reprise/ https://www.ldlc.com/aide/234-politique-de-reprise/

thirdsun 4y ago

Not true. It may work. However your return period should serve as a way to test the item similar to what would be possible in store. Using a vacuum cleaner for a month may result in a partial refund if there are clear signs of usage. There are limits to what is considered appropriate testing.