4 ms·

The similarity is that Alec Baldwin is neither a gun expert nor a car expert. He's an actor. When actors deal with dangerous props -- and all kinds of props can

The similarity is that Alec Baldwin is neither a gun expert nor a car expert. He's an actor. When actors deal with dangerous props -- and all kinds of props can be dangerous in unexpected ways -- there are (supposed to be) professionals on hand who (are supposed to) make sure the props are used safely. If there's reason to believe that (a) Baldwin had been trained to determine whether the gun was loaded with live ammunition and (b) that was his responsibility on set, then he's definitely at fault. I'd be curious to read any claims to that effect. What I've read is that the person who was qualified to and responsible for determining if the gun was loaded with live ammo said the gun was not loaded with live ammo.

philwelch 4y ago
> The similarity is that Alec Baldwin is neither a gun expert nor a car expert. Nobody is expecting him to be an expert in either, just to have the basic knowledge necessary to safely use the thing. > If there's reason to believe that (a) Baldwin had been trained to determine whether the gun was loaded with live ammunition and (b) that was his responsibility on set If he couldn’t determine whether the gun was loaded, he should assume that it was loaded. That’s literally the first rule of gun safety, and nobody should even touch a gun without knowing that much. The second rule is not to point it at anything you aren’t willing to shoot, the third rule is to keep your finger clear of the trigger until you’re ready to fire, and the fourth rule is to be sure of your target and what’s behind it. Baldwin literally violated all four of these rules. There wasn’t any sort of arcane, expert knowledge he was missing here. He didn’t even have to know how to check if the gun was loaded if he knew to keep his booger hook off the bang switch. Look, I’m sorry if you’re a big Alec Baldwin fan for some reason. Sometimes people we like do things that are awful or criminally negligent and part of the grieving process is to try and rationalize why it wasn’t really their fault. But in this particular incident, there was absolutely no need for Baldwin to have his finger on the trigger, and if you set aside all the other production issues, the physical act of pulling the trigger was his responsibility and his alone.
- jdm2212 4y ago
  How do you imagine actors act out scenes that involve shooting each other with guns if they can't put their finger on the trigger, point guns at each other, or use guns loaded with blanks? Baldwin seems like he's personally kind of an asshole, but I find it pretty weird that a bunch of gun hobbyists think they understand how movie productions work. Like, this isn't you and your buddies at the gun range. There are paid professionals whose responsibility it is to keep things safe on set. To the extent that Baldwin being an asshole matters, it's if he was making life difficult for the armorer somehow when the cameras weren't rolling, not the way he acted out the scene where the gun went off.
  - philwelch 4y ago
    > How do you imagine actors act out scenes that involve shooting each other with guns if they can't put their finger on the trigger, point guns at each other, or use guns loaded with blanks? That's irrelevant in this case; Baldwin was just blocking out a camera angle. There was absolutely no need for him to touch the trigger in this incident. It doesn't make much of a difference in this case how Hollywood productions handle firearms in general because in the vast majority of those Hollywood productions, nobody gets shot to death on set. I would hope that this incident leads to an industry-wide improvement in safety standards, just like the death of Brandon Lee or the on-set deaths during the production of the Twilight Zone movie. > I find it pretty weird that a bunch of gun hobbyists think they understand how movie productions work. As a "gun hobbyist", I find it pretty weird that a professional actor who is paid millions of dollars to handle firearms on a movie set could behave so recklessly. I don't care about Baldwin being an "asshole"; I care about him killing another human being through criminal negligence. Why are you making excuses for him?
    - jdm2212 4y ago
      If you don't believe me about how weapons safety on set is supposed to work, take it from an actual professional armorer (below). Notice there's nothing in here about it being the actor's job to make sure the gun is safe, never put your finger on the trigger, etc. An experienced, cautious actor can go above and beyond and make sure the armorer didn't fuck up, but it's not expected or part of the job description. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-shooting-halyna-hutchins-involuntary-manslaughter/672829/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/alec-baldw... Armorer: When the armorer wakes up in the morning, those guns and the ammunition should be under lock and key. Everything should have been inventoried the night before. They look at their call sheet; they know what they need. They’ll normally have a cart that has the weapons for that particular scene locked up with keys that only they have on their person. They’ll transport them to set when they’re called to set. They’ll open up those cases. For a rehearsal, a lot of times, they will bring out the guns. Now, a lot of times you can do a rehearsal without guns. Interviewer: Baldwin was rehearsing when this happened, right? Armorer: Right. But the thing is, if they had not used them in rehearsal and then used them in the actual scene, would he have shot her then? Who knows? But it’s just another layer of protection that’s put in place. Armorer (ctd): When you’re ready to go, the actors stand on their marks. Firearms are called in. The armorer will walk in with the firearms and put them in the actor’s hands. If they need to fire the guns, the armorer will chamber a round into whatever gun needs to be fired. And he will say “This weapon is hot” right to the actor’s face. Of course, this is after your typical safety briefings that they have every single day and before every single scene is shot with firearms, to let everyone know that firearms are on set. (later in the interview) Armorer: So first of all, if the assistant director was the one who handed him the pistol, there was no professional involved who knew anything about firearms. So that’s hugely concerning. Armorer (ctd): Baldwin has been doing this long enough. He’s been in a lot of movies, action movies and things like that. If someone hands him a gun, what’s stopping him from looking down and looking through that chamber and saying, “Oh, I got rounds in here”? “Why are we dealing with rounds? Are they dummy rounds? Can I inspect the dummy rounds myself?" He’s totally okay to ask that.
Ekaros 4y ago
From police interview I think he had enough clue to make him look bad enough in relation of guns. A dangerous idiot so to say. And that is what matters in a court.

philwelch 4y ago

> The similarity is that Alec Baldwin is neither a gun expert nor a car expert. Nobody is expecting him to be an expert in either, just to have the basic knowledge necessary to safely use the thing. > If there's reason to believe that (a) Baldwin had been trained to determine whether the gun was loaded with live ammunition and (b) that was his responsibility on set If he couldn’t determine whether the gun was loaded, he should assume that it was loaded. That’s literally the first rule of gun safety, and nobody should even touch a gun without knowing that much. The second rule is not to point it at anything you aren’t willing to shoot, the third rule is to keep your finger clear of the trigger until you’re ready to fire, and the fourth rule is to be sure of your target and what’s behind it. Baldwin literally violated all four of these rules. There wasn’t any sort of arcane, expert knowledge he was missing here. He didn’t even have to know how to check if the gun was loaded if he knew to keep his booger hook off the bang switch. Look, I’m sorry if you’re a big Alec Baldwin fan for some reason. Sometimes people we like do things that are awful or criminally negligent and part of the grieving process is to try and rationalize why it wasn’t really their fault. But in this particular incident, there was absolutely no need for Baldwin to have his finger on the trigger, and if you set aside all the other production issues, the physical act of pulling the trigger was his responsibility and his alone.

jdm2212 4y ago
How do you imagine actors act out scenes that involve shooting each other with guns if they can't put their finger on the trigger, point guns at each other, or use guns loaded with blanks? Baldwin seems like he's personally kind of an asshole, but I find it pretty weird that a bunch of gun hobbyists think they understand how movie productions work. Like, this isn't you and your buddies at the gun range. There are paid professionals whose responsibility it is to keep things safe on set. To the extent that Baldwin being an asshole matters, it's if he was making life difficult for the armorer somehow when the cameras weren't rolling, not the way he acted out the scene where the gun went off.
- philwelch 4y ago
  > How do you imagine actors act out scenes that involve shooting each other with guns if they can't put their finger on the trigger, point guns at each other, or use guns loaded with blanks? That's irrelevant in this case; Baldwin was just blocking out a camera angle. There was absolutely no need for him to touch the trigger in this incident. It doesn't make much of a difference in this case how Hollywood productions handle firearms in general because in the vast majority of those Hollywood productions, nobody gets shot to death on set. I would hope that this incident leads to an industry-wide improvement in safety standards, just like the death of Brandon Lee or the on-set deaths during the production of the Twilight Zone movie. > I find it pretty weird that a bunch of gun hobbyists think they understand how movie productions work. As a "gun hobbyist", I find it pretty weird that a professional actor who is paid millions of dollars to handle firearms on a movie set could behave so recklessly. I don't care about Baldwin being an "asshole"; I care about him killing another human being through criminal negligence. Why are you making excuses for him?
  - jdm2212 4y ago
    If you don't believe me about how weapons safety on set is supposed to work, take it from an actual professional armorer (below). Notice there's nothing in here about it being the actor's job to make sure the gun is safe, never put your finger on the trigger, etc. An experienced, cautious actor can go above and beyond and make sure the armorer didn't fuck up, but it's not expected or part of the job description. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/alec-baldwin-rust-movie-shooting-halyna-hutchins-involuntary-manslaughter/672829/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/01/alec-baldw... Armorer: When the armorer wakes up in the morning, those guns and the ammunition should be under lock and key. Everything should have been inventoried the night before. They look at their call sheet; they know what they need. They’ll normally have a cart that has the weapons for that particular scene locked up with keys that only they have on their person. They’ll transport them to set when they’re called to set. They’ll open up those cases. For a rehearsal, a lot of times, they will bring out the guns. Now, a lot of times you can do a rehearsal without guns. Interviewer: Baldwin was rehearsing when this happened, right? Armorer: Right. But the thing is, if they had not used them in rehearsal and then used them in the actual scene, would he have shot her then? Who knows? But it’s just another layer of protection that’s put in place. Armorer (ctd): When you’re ready to go, the actors stand on their marks. Firearms are called in. The armorer will walk in with the firearms and put them in the actor’s hands. If they need to fire the guns, the armorer will chamber a round into whatever gun needs to be fired. And he will say “This weapon is hot” right to the actor’s face. Of course, this is after your typical safety briefings that they have every single day and before every single scene is shot with firearms, to let everyone know that firearms are on set. (later in the interview) Armorer: So first of all, if the assistant director was the one who handed him the pistol, there was no professional involved who knew anything about firearms. So that’s hugely concerning. Armorer (ctd): Baldwin has been doing this long enough. He’s been in a lot of movies, action movies and things like that. If someone hands him a gun, what’s stopping him from looking down and looking through that chamber and saying, “Oh, I got rounds in here”? “Why are we dealing with rounds? Are they dummy rounds? Can I inspect the dummy rounds myself?" He’s totally okay to ask that.

Ekaros 4y ago

From police interview I think he had enough clue to make him look bad enough in relation of guns. A dangerous idiot so to say. And that is what matters in a court.