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You can convert existing cars to run on hydrogen. Also, hydrogen can be combined with CO₂ to create e-fuels.

by _hypx 4y ago

laverya 4y ago
Uh... How? You'd need an entirely new fuel system at a minimum, even if you could reuse the rest of the powertrain. And hydrogen tanks are a lot larger than a gas tank, so finding a place for it might be difficult!
sbradford26 4y ago
I don't deny that EVs have issues that we will have to solve like recycling and reducing the amount of rare earth metals in them. But just saying Hydrogen fixes that glosses over the massive amount of problems that needs to be solved for hydrogen to be viable. Short list and no nowhere near exhaustive list: Extremely high pressures required to get sufficient energy density Hydrogen embrittlement basically requiring expiration dates on tanks in vehicles Inefficiency/cost of green methods for producing hydrogen How to create cheap fueling stations like we have with gas stations That isn't to say these problems are not solvable but we have been working on them a long time and haven't made a ton of progress. Meanwhile EVs have already been able to overcome most of the big hurdles. I think hydrogen has a possible future in aircraft because the issue of cost, maintenance, and special equipment for fueling is status quo for aircraft already.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- _hypx 4y ago
  People are just glossing over the problems of EVs while trumping up the problems of hydrogen. You'll end up with nearly unsolvable problems with EVs that will force you use hydrogen somewhere anyways.
  - askvictor 4y ago
    Hydrogen has been mooted as an alternative fuel as long as I remember (40 odd years). The fact there is barely any Hydrogen infrastructure (and hence, barely any cars) by this point, while there are plenty of electric cars suggests there are a lot more problems with Hydrogen than you might imagine. Yes, there are problems with EVs. But they seem to work for the here and now, and are certainly better than staying with oil.
    - _hypx 4y ago
      EVs are over 100 years old. They were an abandoned idea until environmentalism drove their readoption. Environmentalism will make other ignored ideas come back.
      - majormajor 4y ago
        If you compare the range of a 25 year old EV with a new one, it's pretty obvious that technological advances played as much a role as "environmentalism." California wanted to phase out gas after the smog nightmare of the 80s, saw the cars got <100mile range, couldn't do it. Only now is it potentially practical. Hydrogen has a ton of shortcomings still. Technology might improve some of those too, sure. But if 75%, say, of the most severe environmental impacts of cars are mitigated by EVs, leaving a much smaller-sized problem in their wake, the technological advancements will have to be proportionally even stronger and easier to overcome to make the market move on again. (Or if EVs never replace >80% of new gas vehicles or so... but if inertia against change is that strong, that's not a benefit for hydrogen advocates.)
        _hypx 4y ago
        Hydrogen cars from 40 years ago had the same problem. They were terrible cars with short ranges too. This has changed with newer technology. The biggest advantage of hydrogen is that they also solve the most severe environmental consequences of conventional cars, just without creating new ones of their own. It is similar to how LED lightbulbs replaced CFLs, even though CFLs were seen as necessary to replace incandescent bulbs.
      - 4y ago

You can convert existing cars to run on hydrogen. Also, hydrogen can be combined with CO₂ to create e-fuels.

by _hypx 4y ago

You can convert existing cars to run on hydrogen. Also, hydrogen can be combined with CO₂ to create e-fuels.

Uh... How? You'd need an entirely new fuel system at a minimum, even if you could reuse the rest of the powertrain. And hydrogen tanks are a lot larger than a gas tank, so finding a place for it might be difficult!

sbradford26 4y ago

I don't deny that EVs have issues that we will have to solve like recycling and reducing the amount of rare earth metals in them. But just saying Hydrogen fixes that glosses over the massive amount of problems that needs to be solved for hydrogen to be viable. Short list and no nowhere near exhaustive list: Extremely high pressures required to get sufficient energy density Hydrogen embrittlement basically requiring expiration dates on tanks in vehicles Inefficiency/cost of green methods for producing hydrogen How to create cheap fueling stations like we have with gas stations That isn't to say these problems are not solvable but we have been working on them a long time and haven't made a ton of progress. Meanwhile EVs have already been able to overcome most of the big hurdles. I think hydrogen has a possible future in aircraft because the issue of cost, maintenance, and special equipment for fueling is status quo for aircraft already.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
_hypx 4y ago
People are just glossing over the problems of EVs while trumping up the problems of hydrogen. You'll end up with nearly unsolvable problems with EVs that will force you use hydrogen somewhere anyways.
- askvictor 4y ago
  Hydrogen has been mooted as an alternative fuel as long as I remember (40 odd years). The fact there is barely any Hydrogen infrastructure (and hence, barely any cars) by this point, while there are plenty of electric cars suggests there are a lot more problems with Hydrogen than you might imagine. Yes, there are problems with EVs. But they seem to work for the here and now, and are certainly better than staying with oil.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    EVs are over 100 years old. They were an abandoned idea until environmentalism drove their readoption. Environmentalism will make other ignored ideas come back.
    - majormajor 4y ago
      If you compare the range of a 25 year old EV with a new one, it's pretty obvious that technological advances played as much a role as "environmentalism." California wanted to phase out gas after the smog nightmare of the 80s, saw the cars got <100mile range, couldn't do it. Only now is it potentially practical. Hydrogen has a ton of shortcomings still. Technology might improve some of those too, sure. But if 75%, say, of the most severe environmental impacts of cars are mitigated by EVs, leaving a much smaller-sized problem in their wake, the technological advancements will have to be proportionally even stronger and easier to overcome to make the market move on again. (Or if EVs never replace >80% of new gas vehicles or so... but if inertia against change is that strong, that's not a benefit for hydrogen advocates.)
      - _hypx 4y ago
        Hydrogen cars from 40 years ago had the same problem. They were terrible cars with short ranges too. This has changed with newer technology. The biggest advantage of hydrogen is that they also solve the most severe environmental consequences of conventional cars, just without creating new ones of their own. It is similar to how LED lightbulbs replaced CFLs, even though CFLs were seen as necessary to replace incandescent bulbs.
    - 4y ago