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I recently came across this by accident and your explanation jives. I noticed I would get fairly fatigued, and have to take a nap around 11am every morning, an
by ElijahLynn 4y ago
I recently came across this by accident and your explanation jives.
I noticed I would get fairly fatigued, and have to take a nap around 11am every morning, and eventually found that it was basically every 4-5 hours, even mid-day too. I would take a 10-20m power nap and usually wake up feeling really good, I would even hit REM in that time.
Then a few months ago, I noticed when I was having this feeling I was usually ruminating about something, and it was something like grappling or repressed anger, AND what this did was cause very shallow breathing and "breath holding" patterns. And I've been doing a lot of work around Gabor Mate, MD's work lately and processing trauma responses so I was able to identify this and feel the feelings in a more present way, and in doing so, start very intentional deep, slow breath and exhales.
Compared to my shallow breathing and holding, my breaths became like 3-4x longer. And... to my surprise, the fatigue would pass in about 5minutes or so and I would not need a nap, and get my brain back to an "alert" state, as opposed to that "foggy" state.
I have been doing this for months now, and it keeps working. And now, this was really blurry because sometimes I would be genuinely tired from sleep debt from pulling a late night, and it was a similar feeling. So when I get a solid nights sleep for multiple nights in a row, then the breathing works to keep me alert, and helps me get more in touch with my emotions and subconscious thoughts rise up and become concious. I can detect the shallow breathing/breath holding fairly well now, but not always, and it is still a work in progress to make these breaths the default. The breathing does help me move through life much better now, and I walk slower, and not so rushed, and am more at peace with doing things in the present.
This actually wouldn't really be possible though if it weren't for a discovery that I breathed through my mouth my whole life (40 years) recently too. I learned about the "nasal cycle" and in combination with a deviated septum I have, my nose would plug up every now and then with no rhyme or reason, I thought it was diet for a long time but eventually learned about the "nasal cycle" where the turbinates in our noses swap the swelling to change the airflow every 4-6 hours or so. And when it swapped to my non-blocked septum side, my airflow would stop and I would be forced to breathe through my mouth. What this meant is that I could never develop a habit of nasal breathing my entire life. I started using Afrin about 5 months ago, and then stopped because it says not to use it continuously and you get a rebound when you stop using it. But then I found a Ear Nose Throat doctor/surgeon and presented my hypothesis to him and he confirmed that the nasal cycle + deviated septum hypothesis was correct! And he suggested I use Afrin plus a nasal steroid (Sensimist) together and that will reduce the rebound effect and that enabled me to use Afrin long term to stop the natural swelling of the turbinates in my nose. And, so I've been using Afrin for 3 months now and can breath so good through my nose now, and it is so sweet, and so precious, I can't imagine going back to mouth breathing ever again. I do have increased sensitivity to cold with the Afrin and my nose drips like a faucet. Or maybe that was because I never breathed through my nose in the cold to begin with? Regardless, I need to bring tissues with me in cold weather wherever I go.
And that leads to the fact that now when I noticed the breathing pausing, I can take big deep breaths through my nose and it feels so good, and calming, I can break out of the trauma/anxiety cycle and self-regulate with breathing.
I think the breathing cycle issue is mostly a trauma response from a young age and then it turns into a learned habit. This is the result of a caretaker not being there for me/us to help us self-regulate at a young age. The Wisdom of Trauma film and In the Realm of the Hungry Ghosts book by Gabor Mate, MD. really was trans-formative in my understanding of all this and success here, combined with other things as I mentioned above.
Sleep debt is also super duper real, and from what I learned in The Promise of Sleep by William Dement, MD. is that if I miss 2 hours of sleep one night, it can take 4 nights to actually catch up on that, like 30 minutes extra a night. I can't pay it back in 1 night, and that I still need to take naps. If we don't have sleep we will be in a chronic stress state forever.
I also was recently diagnosed with sleep apnea, after going to the doctor for fatigue and mentioning how frequent and predictable my naps were, I thought I had narcolepsy. They had to do a sleep apnea test first for insurance reasons before narcolepsy testing could be approved. This was when I was still mouth breathing, and I was waking up like 10 times a night from chronic back pain, trying to find that perfect position, so never really slept more than an hour without waking. I was fatigued. So Sleep Apnea came back positive and one of the explanations for the waking up, (had to pee a lot too), was that when the airway closes the body releases adrenaline to wake up or do something with the airway, the adrenaline increases urine production, and so I was also waking up because of having to pee, not enough air, or back pain.
I finally got rid of all the back and neck pain (of 20 years) using Pain Reprocessing Therapy (Gordon) and Compassion-based trauma therapy (Compassionate Inquiry (Mate) + Internal Family Systems (Schwartz) and started sleeping through the night, without CPAP, and then I tried CPAP for a month and was still tired and fatigued during the day. So I stopped using CPAP and only later realized that I may have been getting enough oxygen at night but wasn't during the day.
This is all one giant hurried mess of a story, but I wasn't going to post anything and figured "perfect is the enemy of good" and that this could help some people connect some dots in their lives so I just blotted it all out here.
- stevofolife 4y agoHow do you feel now compared to before?
- _yb2s 4y agoWOW this post resonates with me on so many levels. Thank you so much for writing it out! -I have the exact same issue, I feel overwhelming fatigue that lifts with a 10 minute nap, and need to do it many times per day. I work from home, and can't really work in person because without a nap I just crash, despite getting a good nights sleep -My girlfriend pointed out that I normally breath unusually fast and shallow, about twice as fast as her -I've had some very traumatic experiences in the last few years that I still haven't dealt with fully. Around the time of these experiences I couldn't sleep well because I had to constantly get up to urinate, and also at the same time felt an "air hunger" where I felt no amount of breathing was enough Could you recommend something specific to start working on with these things? I actually just started reading the Mate book "The Myth of Normal" but haven't gotten very far in it yet. It seems like there are quite a few people here discovering these things, I wish we could form a discussion group or something.
- Domenic_S 4y ago> constantly get up to urinate I hope you've been checked for diabetes?
- _yb2s 4y agoThe problem went away immediately when the massively stressful event was passed.
- ElijahLynn 4y agoWell, first thing is, can you breath through your nose? Do you have that habit down? Fixing this is really important, for me at least. If a person can't breath through their nose, I suggest trying Afrin. This was such a huge lightbulb moment for me, and was my "AHA" moment. I really didn't know that the normal human condition is to nasal breathe. My mom has the same condition and I was raised by her so I didn't realize it and she didn't either to even notice it in me. It works instantly, within 10 minutes, and my world was opened up! And it still took me months to form the habit of nasal breathing, because I could never trust it enough when it worked (due to the nasal cycle). I definitely do Afrin just before bedtime too, every 12 hours or so. And I am getting surgery for the deviated septum too in February. Second thing, do you have chronic pain? That will keep the body in a stress response. Chronic pain is actually easier to get rid of than I thought, and I tried a lot of things for 20 years. The new research at University of Colorado Boulder, using functional MRI scans in 2020 proves that much chronic pain can be eliminated in a short period with a very specific technique called Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), which is a compassion-based therapy. This is a really, really hard thing to believe, and one doesn't have to believe it fully, they just have to believe it enough to be curious and learn more. And if one is curious, I recommend listening to a 15 episode mini-series podcast called Tell Me About Your Pain by Alon Gordon (Pain Pyschologist) and Alon Ziv (Neuroscientist), then after that listen to the audio book (not ebook) by the same people called "The Way Out" (2022). Then there are 6 specific meditations by Alan Gordon on an app called Curable that I used to eliminate my chronic neck and back pain, I can dig up the link to them if you like. This same technique is what I use to react to my shallow breathing and fatigue with deeper breathing. This got me sleeping through the night. Third, the trauma therapy (it isn't if we have trauma, it is how much), I recommend starting with the film The Wisdom of Trauma. And if that is interesting then reading In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. Myth of Normal seems like a great book too, I haven't read it yet though but it is on my list. I did start reading Gabor's AD(H)D book Scattered Minds a while back, way before this breathing breakthrough surfaced and need to finish it, but to sum up one thing I learned I have ADD-Like symptoms and this whole shallow breathing thing I have noticed is a large part of it. Once I start conscious breathing, by ADD-like stuff reduces. I've been more motivated to actually exercise and not fall asleep doing it, and I have been working on cold-exposure therapy (What Doesn't Kill Us by Mark Carney, investigative journalist who tried to debunk Wim Hoff, ended up drinking the Koolaid, and explains why). The cold-exposure increases the chemical called norepinephrine, which is one of the chemicals that Adderall increases (along with Dopamine). There is a quote from the film "My Octopus Teacher" (fantastic film) where he says "the cold really upgrades the brain" and references him diving into the ocean without a wetsuit almost every day for a year making friends with an octopus. I really like that quote. The cold does help me think when I do it, and I am still easing into it, and getting my brain back. All in all, I feel at a really new phase of my life, and that includes this thing called "Hope". I no longer think my fatigue is caused by my diet, and in fact I know it isn't. I'm happy to chat about this with you or anyone else. I'm also open to saying "hi" on a real-time communication (RTC) chat here https://cal.com/ElijahLynn https://cal.com/ElijahLynn.