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Everyone receives UBI. Those earning additional income beyond a threshold will pay taxes such that their "net UBI" for the tax year or other tax period will be

Everyone receives UBI. Those earning additional income beyond a threshold will pay taxes such that their "net UBI" for the tax year or other tax period will be 0 or less. But the standard UBI payments come in no matter what. Can you better phrase how you're looking at this like an experiment with control and test components?

ibejoeb 4y ago
That was just a poor sentence. By "claim it" I'm referring to opting not to work and citing long covid. I'm asking if after having given everyone an escape hatch, what is going to fund UBI?
- scotty79 4y ago
  Progressive property tax. The more property you own, the higher percentage of its value you pay every year as a tax.
  - ibejoeb 4y ago
    So you want to give a large property owner UBI, but then you want to tax him more than the UBI?
    - scotty79 4y ago
      Yup. I'm gonna give him UBI because figuring out why he shouldn't get any would cost too much. And I'm gonna take the property tax to finance UBI but also to incentivise him to maybe sell some of his property to lower his property tax percentage. To reduce his ability to suck out UBI of his tenants from them.
  - ibejoeb 4y ago
    (Well, HN has put the brakes on a totally civil engagement, so I need to reply here instead of where it belongs.) OK, I see where you're going with that. The part I object to is really just an implementation detail. It's not cheaper to give him money and pay him back because 1) that's work that someone has to do, and more importantly 2) the reason you need to know if he should not be getting it is because you need to know how much to tax him in the first place, and it's the same job. That said, I don't like the implication for the aged who no longer work. I'd prefer to keep people in their homes than to tax them out of them.
    - scotty79 4y ago
      It's completely separate jobs. To give UBI you just need to know if the guy has pulse and what is his chosen bank account. You can delegate both of those tasks to banks. Heck, you can delegate paying the guy to banks as well. They can just credit his account out of a thin air, the way they currently do when they give loans. You can destroy equivalent amount of money that you gathered from tax to keep things in balance. The tax on the other hand is completely different job. Because you need to find out what properties this guy has (directly and through subsidiaries) and how much are they worth on the market and set up account for him to pay and inform him about how much he needs to pay and confiscate his assetes if he doesn't pay. That's much more work but it can bring vast amounts of money and improve our insane system of real estate where hoarding is not only cheap but even profitable. Regarding old folks. Tax on a single or even two or three properties should be zero. You might even get a tax credit if you own just single property that would help you with your mortgage. However for more properties it should raise significantly. Maybe if you have 1000 properties tax should cost you at least few of them each year. Technical note about replying to a post. I think reply link is not visible for a while after creating a post. Last time I had ttouble with this I just waited a bit and it showed up.
      - ibejoeb 4y ago
        > I think reply link is not visible for a while after creating a post It's the depth/flamewar metric. > you need to find out what properties this guy has...and inform him about how much he needs to pay Right. You need to do this. So, at this point, you know whether or not he needs the original benefit.
        scotty79 4y ago
        Yeah, but you'd have to treat him differently and that unnecessary work. In software it's good to keep separate the things that don't need to be combined. UBI is universal so even the richest guy in a country should get it. Reducing one (some?) of his taxes and remebering to not pay him UBI is more work than just keeping those things separate.

ibejoeb 4y ago

That was just a poor sentence. By "claim it" I'm referring to opting not to work and citing long covid. I'm asking if after having given everyone an escape hatch, what is going to fund UBI?

scotty79 4y ago
Progressive property tax. The more property you own, the higher percentage of its value you pay every year as a tax.
- ibejoeb 4y ago
  So you want to give a large property owner UBI, but then you want to tax him more than the UBI?
  - scotty79 4y ago
    Yup. I'm gonna give him UBI because figuring out why he shouldn't get any would cost too much. And I'm gonna take the property tax to finance UBI but also to incentivise him to maybe sell some of his property to lower his property tax percentage. To reduce his ability to suck out UBI of his tenants from them.
- ibejoeb 4y ago
  (Well, HN has put the brakes on a totally civil engagement, so I need to reply here instead of where it belongs.) OK, I see where you're going with that. The part I object to is really just an implementation detail. It's not cheaper to give him money and pay him back because 1) that's work that someone has to do, and more importantly 2) the reason you need to know if he should not be getting it is because you need to know how much to tax him in the first place, and it's the same job. That said, I don't like the implication for the aged who no longer work. I'd prefer to keep people in their homes than to tax them out of them.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    It's completely separate jobs. To give UBI you just need to know if the guy has pulse and what is his chosen bank account. You can delegate both of those tasks to banks. Heck, you can delegate paying the guy to banks as well. They can just credit his account out of a thin air, the way they currently do when they give loans. You can destroy equivalent amount of money that you gathered from tax to keep things in balance. The tax on the other hand is completely different job. Because you need to find out what properties this guy has (directly and through subsidiaries) and how much are they worth on the market and set up account for him to pay and inform him about how much he needs to pay and confiscate his assetes if he doesn't pay. That's much more work but it can bring vast amounts of money and improve our insane system of real estate where hoarding is not only cheap but even profitable. Regarding old folks. Tax on a single or even two or three properties should be zero. You might even get a tax credit if you own just single property that would help you with your mortgage. However for more properties it should raise significantly. Maybe if you have 1000 properties tax should cost you at least few of them each year. Technical note about replying to a post. I think reply link is not visible for a while after creating a post. Last time I had ttouble with this I just waited a bit and it showed up.
    - ibejoeb 4y ago
      > I think reply link is not visible for a while after creating a post It's the depth/flamewar metric. > you need to find out what properties this guy has...and inform him about how much he needs to pay Right. You need to do this. So, at this point, you know whether or not he needs the original benefit.
      - scotty79 4y ago
        Yeah, but you'd have to treat him differently and that unnecessary work. In software it's good to keep separate the things that don't need to be combined. UBI is universal so even the richest guy in a country should get it. Reducing one (some?) of his taxes and remebering to not pay him UBI is more work than just keeping those things separate.