4 ms·

You can bootstrap the compiler. It's a chore but not impossible. More usefully, you can check that your builds are identical to other people's, so at least your

You can bootstrap the compiler. It's a chore but not impossible. More usefully, you can check that your builds are identical to other people's, so at least your compiler isn't uniquely compromised.

londons_explore 4y ago
> You can bootstrap the compiler. It's a chore but not impossible. And specifically, only one person needs to do this once... I'm surprised there isn't some project doing this...
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  There is: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/ https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/
withinboredom 4y ago
I don’t think it’s possible since you’d need the original compilers from the 70’s and bootstrap other compilers up to a modern one. Otherwise your existing compiler could taint your new one.
- chameco 4y ago
  It'd be a fun exercise to write a tiny Forth in machine code (sans assembler) and use it to write enough of a C compiler to build tcc, or something along those lines. From there I think you can chain old (but accessible) gcc versions up to modern gcc.
- chithanh 4y ago
  No, you only need two compilers that have not been subverted by the same adversary. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_tr...
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    That’s a good point
- chlorion 4y ago
  There are people who spend time trying to solve this issue! https://bootstrappable.org/ https://bootstrappable.org/ https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/ https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/ The idea here, is that if you can get a very basic C compiler, you can start building TinyCC, and eventually build a pre-C++ version of GCC, and from there build up to modern GCC. This is a lot easier said than done of course, but not quite as bad as needing the original compilers from the 70s!
- ectopod 4y ago
  Many years ago I wrote a C compiler in assembly language. It wasn't hard, and C hasn't changed that much. The complexity in modern compilers is in the optimisation, which you don't need if you're bootstrapping. It's not impossible.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    A pragmatic approach!

You can bootstrap the compiler. It's a chore but not impossible. More usefully, you can check that your builds are identical to other people's, so at least your compiler isn't uniquely compromised.

londons_explore 4y ago

> You can bootstrap the compiler. It's a chore but not impossible. And specifically, only one person needs to do this once... I'm surprised there isn't some project doing this...

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
There is: https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/ https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/stage0/

withinboredom 4y ago

I don’t think it’s possible since you’d need the original compilers from the 70’s and bootstrap other compilers up to a modern one. Otherwise your existing compiler could taint your new one.

chameco 4y ago
It'd be a fun exercise to write a tiny Forth in machine code (sans assembler) and use it to write enough of a C compiler to build tcc, or something along those lines. From there I think you can chain old (but accessible) gcc versions up to modern gcc.
chithanh 4y ago
No, you only need two compilers that have not been subverted by the same adversary. https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_trus.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/01/countering_tr...
- withinboredom 4y ago
  That’s a good point
chlorion 4y ago
There are people who spend time trying to solve this issue! https://bootstrappable.org/ https://bootstrappable.org/ https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/ https://www.gnu.org/software/mes/ The idea here, is that if you can get a very basic C compiler, you can start building TinyCC, and eventually build a pre-C++ version of GCC, and from there build up to modern GCC. This is a lot easier said than done of course, but not quite as bad as needing the original compilers from the 70s!
ectopod 4y ago
Many years ago I wrote a C compiler in assembly language. It wasn't hard, and C hasn't changed that much. The complexity in modern compilers is in the optimisation, which you don't need if you're bootstrapping. It's not impossible.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  A pragmatic approach!