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I'm using Laravel with Hotwire and it's fantastic. Now I want to cry every time I see the mess of overengineering I have to deal with in other projects when the

I'm using Laravel with Hotwire and it's fantastic. Now I want to cry every time I see the mess of overengineering I have to deal with in other projects when they're built with Redux, React, etc, etc.

omnimus 4y ago
Why Hotwire instead of Livewire if i may ask?
- 0xblinq 4y ago
  Mostly due to Turbo transitions between pages and being able to persist elements across pages. I know Livewire V3 will solve this but at the time we took the decision it wasn't available. Also something brought up was a conversation regarding Alpine vs Stimulus. At first sight Alpine looked a lot easier, but Stimulus seemed it would scale better and be easier to maintain at the end, plus we expected it to have less problems with Turbo than Alpine given those were made to work together. An important difference we found, is that Stimulus can "react" to value changes (https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/reference/values https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/reference/values) while with Alpine it was not clear how a component, or some external code would trigger an update by changing a "prop" or an "attribute" of the element. We know we could use stores and events, etc but that's what I meant with stimulus being easier to scale long term.
  - omnimus 4y ago
    Interesting. I had the feeling that framework like that has to be so tied to the backend framework that Hotwire has to have lots of troubles outside Rails. I would have never even thought of trying Hotwire with Laravel. Will try. Thanks
    - 0xblinq 4y ago
      Yes, that was my initial impression years ago too. But it's very progressive. For example, you can just use Turbo to get the "SPA like" navigation between pages (no full page reloads) and that's for free, just including it will bring in that behaviour, plus caching when navigating back, link preloading (so when you click the content it's already there), etc. All of this very easy to control/configure via html data attributes. Integrating the "Turbo frames" feature is also pretty easy, just wrap content in <turbo-frame> custom tags and the library will do the replacement without page reloads when you submit a form. Similar situation with "Turbo stream", etc. This is an excerpt from the main documentation site at https://turbo.hotwired.dev/handbook/introduction https://turbo.hotwired.dev/handbook/introduction : "...You don’t need any backend framework to use Turbo. All the features are built to be used directly, without further abstractions. But if you have the opportunity to use a backend framework that’s integrated with Turbo, you’ll find life a lot simpler. We’ve created a reference implementation for such an integration for Ruby on Rails...." Same story with Stimulus. You can add it to any framework, it's just a frontend library. Having said that, there are some "helpers" that you can have in the backend that will make things more idiomatic and avoid some boilerplate, etc. And Laravel being such an amazing framework with such a great community, has a great integration library here: https://github.com/tonysm/turbo-laravel https://github.com/tonysm/turbo-laravel I couldn't be happier with this stack. With Laravel + Hotwire + Tailwind + Laracasts I feel I'm unstoppable.

I'm using Laravel with Hotwire and it's fantastic. Now I want to cry every time I see the mess of overengineering I have to deal with in other projects when they're built with Redux, React, etc, etc.

omnimus 4y ago

Why Hotwire instead of Livewire if i may ask?

0xblinq 4y ago
Mostly due to Turbo transitions between pages and being able to persist elements across pages. I know Livewire V3 will solve this but at the time we took the decision it wasn't available. Also something brought up was a conversation regarding Alpine vs Stimulus. At first sight Alpine looked a lot easier, but Stimulus seemed it would scale better and be easier to maintain at the end, plus we expected it to have less problems with Turbo than Alpine given those were made to work together. An important difference we found, is that Stimulus can "react" to value changes (https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/reference/values https://stimulus.hotwired.dev/reference/values) while with Alpine it was not clear how a component, or some external code would trigger an update by changing a "prop" or an "attribute" of the element. We know we could use stores and events, etc but that's what I meant with stimulus being easier to scale long term.
- omnimus 4y ago
  Interesting. I had the feeling that framework like that has to be so tied to the backend framework that Hotwire has to have lots of troubles outside Rails. I would have never even thought of trying Hotwire with Laravel. Will try. Thanks
  - 0xblinq 4y ago
    Yes, that was my initial impression years ago too. But it's very progressive. For example, you can just use Turbo to get the "SPA like" navigation between pages (no full page reloads) and that's for free, just including it will bring in that behaviour, plus caching when navigating back, link preloading (so when you click the content it's already there), etc. All of this very easy to control/configure via html data attributes. Integrating the "Turbo frames" feature is also pretty easy, just wrap content in <turbo-frame> custom tags and the library will do the replacement without page reloads when you submit a form. Similar situation with "Turbo stream", etc. This is an excerpt from the main documentation site at https://turbo.hotwired.dev/handbook/introduction https://turbo.hotwired.dev/handbook/introduction : "...You don’t need any backend framework to use Turbo. All the features are built to be used directly, without further abstractions. But if you have the opportunity to use a backend framework that’s integrated with Turbo, you’ll find life a lot simpler. We’ve created a reference implementation for such an integration for Ruby on Rails...." Same story with Stimulus. You can add it to any framework, it's just a frontend library. Having said that, there are some "helpers" that you can have in the backend that will make things more idiomatic and avoid some boilerplate, etc. And Laravel being such an amazing framework with such a great community, has a great integration library here: https://github.com/tonysm/turbo-laravel https://github.com/tonysm/turbo-laravel I couldn't be happier with this stack. With Laravel + Hotwire + Tailwind + Laracasts I feel I'm unstoppable.