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I didn’t say free, I said subsidised. You need to reduce friction for good habits and increase friction for bad ones. At the minute, our societies do the exact

by rcarr 4y ago

I didn’t say free, I said subsidised. You need to reduce friction for good habits and increase friction for bad ones. At the minute, our societies do the exact opposite. Unhealthy food and Netflix and cheap. Healthy food and education are expensive. It doesn’t matter how it happened, once someone is in the hole, the negative feedback loop makes it very hard for them to escape. If you are worked to the bone on minimum wage to keep an overpriced roof over your head you will likely fall into the trap of eating shit food and binging on Netflix because summoning the energy to cook, teach yourself skills and exercise is going to be difficult. And the more you give in to doing that the deeper into the hole you fall. People at the bottom need breathing space. Reduce the amount of money they have to spend to survive which means they don’t have to work themselves to the bone to survive and they can actually focus on improving themselves. I’ve literally seen it happen with my own eyes. And yes, for some people life can be too easy and that can also cause depression. Which is why I believe we need finer grained categories to narrows down the root causes and provide more tailored solutions than just handing out happy pills willy nilly to everyone.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
>You need to reduce friction for good habits and increase friction for bad ones. At the minute, our societies do the exact opposite. Unhealthy food and Netflix and cheap. Healthy food and education are expensive I would argue the opposite. healthy food is already dirt cheap, and education is free. One hour at minimum wage can buy enough clean healthy food to last an adult most of a week.[1] Free education as available at online and at libraries, ranging all the way from simple tasks to Phd courses from Stanford. My point isn't to minimize the hardship of the depressed, but point out that friction isn't the issue. If 5 minutes of cooking, picking up a book, or typing an educational topic into youtube is too much effort, there is a different problem. Why does reading a book, cooking, or learning seem like work, and not fun? It certainly isn't because it is too hard in reality, especially when the same depressed person found pleasure and relaxation in doing these things before they were depressed. [1] I was at the store yesterday and pork was 88 cents/lb, frozen vegetables ~ $1/lb, and rice and beans ~$1/lb.
- rcarr 4y ago
  I agree with some of your points but not all of it. Healthy food can be affordable if you know what to buy and how to cook it. But I disagree that it is cheaper than junk food and it is certainly less convenient to cook and purchase. In the UK at least, there are also 'food deserts'[1] which means it is difficult to access healthy food. I also agree that you can teach yourself stuff online for free. However it doesn't change the fact that you don't have the piece of paper saying you've got a degree which is one of the societal structures that holds a lot of people back. If you want the certification for an online program, you have to pay a similar amount of money to what you would have if you'd attended in person. There are lots of immigrants working in Western countries as taxi drivers who are scientists, doctors and the like back in their home countries but can't practice here for whatever reason, normally to do with the paperwork. IT/Dev is an outlier in that they will hire people without degrees in ways that don't happen in other industries. Something like 'Good Will Hunting' where a self taught janitor makes it into a white collar career is pretty rare. > My point isn't to minimize the hardship of the depressed, but point out that friction isn't the issue. If 5 minutes of cooking, picking up a book, or typing an educational topic into youtube is too much effort, there is a different problem. I still believe friction is a key component. Say you're on the minimum wage and you have to work as many hours as you possibly can to keep a roof over your head. Plus you have a lengthy commute. When you return home you are physically and mentally depleted, particularly if you are an ill fit for whatever job you've had to take on to survive. You want to turn your life around, but you've only got limited time available outside of work to do it. So you start looking for ways to save time. Maybe you'll cut back on exercise, or start eating more junk food so you don't have to cook as much and you can study. Or maybe you'll cut back on sleep. You keep this up for a while but eventually the physical and mental effects start to become overwhelming and you become more and more ill and eventually you burn out. You've worked hard, you've studied and you've still gotten nowhere. And your body and mind are a mess. Maybe you end up losing your job as a result. You lose faith that anything will ever pay off and you stop studying. You fall into depression and the cycle gets even worse. Maybe you even turn to alcohol and drugs to numb the pain. What that person needs is less friction in their life and a bit of help. Maybe it's work from home, maybe it's cheap and healthy takeaway food and probably a higher wage. > Why does reading a book, cooking, or learning seem like work, and not fun? It certainly isn't because it is too hard in reality, especially when the same depressed person found pleasure and relaxation in doing these things before they were depressed. Because the person is engaged in a fight for survival. They are not necessarily studying a topic because they want to but because it's the only thing that will help them get a job in their current location. They can't move away because they have no savings. Whatever they have to learn becomes high stakes. You can't afford to mess up or fail because if you do then you're toast. And learning requires failure so it's a stressful experience on top of your already stressful life. You've got society telling you you're worthless due to paying you barely enough to survive and now you've got a compiler error or a textbook you can't decipher saying the same thing. It takes a large amount of strength to hold fast and have faith that you will eventually come out the other side victorious, especially if this kind of thing goes on for years. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/12/more-than-a-million-uk-residents-live-in-food-deserts-says-study https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/12/more-than-a-...

by rcarr 4y ago

s1artibartfast 4y ago

>You need to reduce friction for good habits and increase friction for bad ones. At the minute, our societies do the exact opposite. Unhealthy food and Netflix and cheap. Healthy food and education are expensive I would argue the opposite. healthy food is already dirt cheap, and education is free. One hour at minimum wage can buy enough clean healthy food to last an adult most of a week.[1] Free education as available at online and at libraries, ranging all the way from simple tasks to Phd courses from Stanford. My point isn't to minimize the hardship of the depressed, but point out that friction isn't the issue. If 5 minutes of cooking, picking up a book, or typing an educational topic into youtube is too much effort, there is a different problem. Why does reading a book, cooking, or learning seem like work, and not fun? It certainly isn't because it is too hard in reality, especially when the same depressed person found pleasure and relaxation in doing these things before they were depressed. [1] I was at the store yesterday and pork was 88 cents/lb, frozen vegetables ~ $1/lb, and rice and beans ~$1/lb.

rcarr 4y ago
I agree with some of your points but not all of it. Healthy food can be affordable if you know what to buy and how to cook it. But I disagree that it is cheaper than junk food and it is certainly less convenient to cook and purchase. In the UK at least, there are also 'food deserts'[1] which means it is difficult to access healthy food. I also agree that you can teach yourself stuff online for free. However it doesn't change the fact that you don't have the piece of paper saying you've got a degree which is one of the societal structures that holds a lot of people back. If you want the certification for an online program, you have to pay a similar amount of money to what you would have if you'd attended in person. There are lots of immigrants working in Western countries as taxi drivers who are scientists, doctors and the like back in their home countries but can't practice here for whatever reason, normally to do with the paperwork. IT/Dev is an outlier in that they will hire people without degrees in ways that don't happen in other industries. Something like 'Good Will Hunting' where a self taught janitor makes it into a white collar career is pretty rare. > My point isn't to minimize the hardship of the depressed, but point out that friction isn't the issue. If 5 minutes of cooking, picking up a book, or typing an educational topic into youtube is too much effort, there is a different problem. I still believe friction is a key component. Say you're on the minimum wage and you have to work as many hours as you possibly can to keep a roof over your head. Plus you have a lengthy commute. When you return home you are physically and mentally depleted, particularly if you are an ill fit for whatever job you've had to take on to survive. You want to turn your life around, but you've only got limited time available outside of work to do it. So you start looking for ways to save time. Maybe you'll cut back on exercise, or start eating more junk food so you don't have to cook as much and you can study. Or maybe you'll cut back on sleep. You keep this up for a while but eventually the physical and mental effects start to become overwhelming and you become more and more ill and eventually you burn out. You've worked hard, you've studied and you've still gotten nowhere. And your body and mind are a mess. Maybe you end up losing your job as a result. You lose faith that anything will ever pay off and you stop studying. You fall into depression and the cycle gets even worse. Maybe you even turn to alcohol and drugs to numb the pain. What that person needs is less friction in their life and a bit of help. Maybe it's work from home, maybe it's cheap and healthy takeaway food and probably a higher wage. > Why does reading a book, cooking, or learning seem like work, and not fun? It certainly isn't because it is too hard in reality, especially when the same depressed person found pleasure and relaxation in doing these things before they were depressed. Because the person is engaged in a fight for survival. They are not necessarily studying a topic because they want to but because it's the only thing that will help them get a job in their current location. They can't move away because they have no savings. Whatever they have to learn becomes high stakes. You can't afford to mess up or fail because if you do then you're toast. And learning requires failure so it's a stressful experience on top of your already stressful life. You've got society telling you you're worthless due to paying you barely enough to survive and now you've got a compiler error or a textbook you can't decipher saying the same thing. It takes a large amount of strength to hold fast and have faith that you will eventually come out the other side victorious, especially if this kind of thing goes on for years. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/12/more-than-a-million-uk-residents-live-in-food-deserts-says-study https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/12/more-than-a-...