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what about accountability to the people who took a risk investing in the company? maybe the CEO didn't predict the future however many months or years ago to g

what about accountability to the people who took a risk investing in the company? maybe the CEO didn't predict the future however many months or years ago to get to a point where no layoffs would've been necessary, but maybe this would've been at the cost of less growth, possibly having worse consequences the idea of "humanity" is completely opaque, it's not that hard to look at the reality instead

folkrav 4y ago
"The reality" is jobs = people. We don't live in a vacuum. It's seriously not that hard either. Between the hundreds of thousands of regular people losing their livelihoods and some investors losing money ("don't invest what you can't afford to lose" something something), doesn't sound too complicated for me. Humanity is not opaque unless you make it so, like this particular system does. It's just people.
- surement 4y ago
  if you don't have money to pay employees then they're out of a job, and if you don't grow you don't get investors and don't hire people please explain how "humanity" solves this
  - f6v 4y ago
    It’s called “Japan”. Low performers are kept in corporations to do nothing all day while many of their peers work themselves to death.
    - folkrav 4y ago
      Are you implying 100000+ people getting laid off in a handful of months merely is about weeding off "underperformers"?
      - f6v 4y ago
        No, I’m saying that not laying anyone off ever isn’t a good idea.
        folkrav 4y ago
        Termination and layoff are two very different things. You typically don't layoff people for incompetence, you fire them.
  - darkwater 4y ago
    Humanity solves this by having an entrepreneur that just wants to have a business up & running in a sustainable, bootstrapped way, that will give jobs to X people earning Y in salary, while the founder in the long run will earn 5-7Y salary. Instead of having founders that want to be billionaires with VC money in a 5 years time-frame. There is still risk, and a business might fail and jobs be lost, but the scale is different.
  - folkrav 4y ago
    Therefore coming back to my initial comment: the very system we live in is based on this conception that we have to forego treating people like humans and have to consider them as mere "resources" just to make it work. Not pretending like I have a solution in the current context. It just will never sit right with me, that's all.
- hnfong 4y ago
  > It's seriously not that hard either. Hah. Suggesting an unworkable solution is of course trivial, never mind the centuries of debate of all the shades of economic systems like cutthroat capitalism, democratic socialism, dictatorship of the proletariat and everything in between. I mean, this is like saying Robin Hood was a serious philosopher of social economics instead of a folktale, and "robbing the rich to feed the poor" is a legit strategy that can and should be implemented under the current capitalist system. And somehow you'd think I was the arrogant one around here for saying there's a lot we don't understand (especially about humanity, i.e. ourselves!).
  - folkrav 4y ago
    I didn't suggest a solution. I literally just said "humanity" is people, and our system treating people like numbers on a spreadsheet will never sit right with me. The rest is you going on a tangent.

folkrav 4y ago

"The reality" is jobs = people. We don't live in a vacuum. It's seriously not that hard either. Between the hundreds of thousands of regular people losing their livelihoods and some investors losing money ("don't invest what you can't afford to lose" something something), doesn't sound too complicated for me. Humanity is not opaque unless you make it so, like this particular system does. It's just people.

surement 4y ago
if you don't have money to pay employees then they're out of a job, and if you don't grow you don't get investors and don't hire people please explain how "humanity" solves this
- f6v 4y ago
  It’s called “Japan”. Low performers are kept in corporations to do nothing all day while many of their peers work themselves to death.
  - folkrav 4y ago
    Are you implying 100000+ people getting laid off in a handful of months merely is about weeding off "underperformers"?
    - f6v 4y ago
      No, I’m saying that not laying anyone off ever isn’t a good idea.
      - folkrav 4y ago
        Termination and layoff are two very different things. You typically don't layoff people for incompetence, you fire them.
- darkwater 4y ago
  Humanity solves this by having an entrepreneur that just wants to have a business up & running in a sustainable, bootstrapped way, that will give jobs to X people earning Y in salary, while the founder in the long run will earn 5-7Y salary. Instead of having founders that want to be billionaires with VC money in a 5 years time-frame. There is still risk, and a business might fail and jobs be lost, but the scale is different.
- folkrav 4y ago
  Therefore coming back to my initial comment: the very system we live in is based on this conception that we have to forego treating people like humans and have to consider them as mere "resources" just to make it work. Not pretending like I have a solution in the current context. It just will never sit right with me, that's all.
hnfong 4y ago
> It's seriously not that hard either. Hah. Suggesting an unworkable solution is of course trivial, never mind the centuries of debate of all the shades of economic systems like cutthroat capitalism, democratic socialism, dictatorship of the proletariat and everything in between. I mean, this is like saying Robin Hood was a serious philosopher of social economics instead of a folktale, and "robbing the rich to feed the poor" is a legit strategy that can and should be implemented under the current capitalist system. And somehow you'd think I was the arrogant one around here for saying there's a lot we don't understand (especially about humanity, i.e. ourselves!).
- folkrav 4y ago
  I didn't suggest a solution. I literally just said "humanity" is people, and our system treating people like numbers on a spreadsheet will never sit right with me. The rest is you going on a tangent.