4 ms·

>See: not a single CEO stepping down for over hiring. Wait, what? You think a CEO should step down because their management over-hired a relatively small prop

>See: not a single CEO stepping down for over hiring. Wait, what? You think a CEO should step down because their management over-hired a relatively small proportion of employees and had to do some layoffs?

hgsgm 4y ago
It's not relatively small. All the companies are experiencing similar chaos to the NYSE because people in the middle of important operational work suddenly vanished. The people laid off weren't idle like H&R Block tax preparers in May or Target clerks in January. The people laid off and the people not needed were a different set of people, at the time of the layoff.
DrBazza 4y ago
I'll make an extreme comparison: "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror" If you make some idiotic financial decision near the bottom of the management tree, such as... over hiring, you'll likely lose your job or get demoted. Do it as a CEO, and get a huge bonus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Rostand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Rostand
- zaroth 4y ago
  But it’s absurd. Companies are not supposed to only ever hire. Some things are cyclical and you need more people for some amount of time, and then you find you need less. It’s not always predictable/seasonal like farming or holiday rush. Is it wrong for a company to respond to market effects? That there was a layoff isn’t necessarily a sign a company did anything wrong… I think how they actually do the layoff certainly can be done well or poorly.
  - DrBazza 4y ago
    It’s not hiring though. It’s overhiring. I’ve forgotten which FAANG it is. But one of them still has more employees than last year even after layoffs. It’s offensive.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      Offensive? I'm... honestly, baffled. How could one tech company's ability to hire many more people actually offend you?
    - usefulcat 4y ago
      So if they "under hire", should they step down for that too? Maybe they should step down any time they fail to accurately predict the future?
    - icedchai 4y ago
      Why is it offensive? Over-hiring has been a thing since at least the first dot-com boom. One's managerial power is directly proportional to how many "reports" they have under them. I worked at one company that raised a decent A round. We immediately rented another office down the street, spent close to 2 million on renovations, then filled it with anyone who could spell HTML. The B round was even larger, so the cycle continued (until late 2001 or so.)
    - horsawlarway 4y ago
      It's a response to extreme demand during covid. When - you know - online service usage was at all time highs because everyone was stuck inside and doing things online. It was likely the right call to hire then, just like it might be the right call to reduce headcount now.
horsawlarway 4y ago
Not really sure why you're getting downvoted, other than to assume an emotional reaction from the community to layoffs impacting tech. Frankly - People seem to be forgetting that until 2013, MS was still doing stack ranking and routinely letting go of the bottom 10% of their workforce (and they were hardly the only ones doing it...) I don't see it as unusual AT ALL that these companies are doing a wave of cuts to headcounts after the large hiring sprees during covid. Especially as interest rates rise, so they're looking to lower debt burdens in the short term and pay off loans made at low interest rates instead of rolling into a higher interest loan in the new environment. If anything... I'd expect the exact opposite - a CEO that fails to address cost centers as debt becomes more expensive is a liability, and someone the board might be looking to replace (ask to step down). --- Does that mean I'm not sympathetic to those who've lost jobs? Of course not. But tech had to rev the engine pretty hard to handle the extra load during covid when everyone was indoors and doing things online, and now that demand has dropped. So they're letting off the gas pedal. If folks don't like it - blame the game. Work to unionize. Work to incentivize co-ops and shared ownership. Work to increase taxation on these companies and their highest earners (which... if you're in the tech industry almost certainly includes YOU). Don't go work for giant tech conglomerates and then act surprised when they act like giant tech conglomerates...

hgsgm 4y ago

It's not relatively small. All the companies are experiencing similar chaos to the NYSE because people in the middle of important operational work suddenly vanished. The people laid off weren't idle like H&R Block tax preparers in May or Target clerks in January. The people laid off and the people not needed were a different set of people, at the time of the layoff.

DrBazza 4y ago

I'll make an extreme comparison: "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror" If you make some idiotic financial decision near the bottom of the management tree, such as... over hiring, you'll likely lose your job or get demoted. Do it as a CEO, and get a huge bonus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Rostand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Rostand

zaroth 4y ago
But it’s absurd. Companies are not supposed to only ever hire. Some things are cyclical and you need more people for some amount of time, and then you find you need less. It’s not always predictable/seasonal like farming or holiday rush. Is it wrong for a company to respond to market effects? That there was a layoff isn’t necessarily a sign a company did anything wrong… I think how they actually do the layoff certainly can be done well or poorly.
- DrBazza 4y ago
  It’s not hiring though. It’s overhiring. I’ve forgotten which FAANG it is. But one of them still has more employees than last year even after layoffs. It’s offensive.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    Offensive? I'm... honestly, baffled. How could one tech company's ability to hire many more people actually offend you?
  - usefulcat 4y ago
    So if they "under hire", should they step down for that too? Maybe they should step down any time they fail to accurately predict the future?
  - icedchai 4y ago
    Why is it offensive? Over-hiring has been a thing since at least the first dot-com boom. One's managerial power is directly proportional to how many "reports" they have under them. I worked at one company that raised a decent A round. We immediately rented another office down the street, spent close to 2 million on renovations, then filled it with anyone who could spell HTML. The B round was even larger, so the cycle continued (until late 2001 or so.)
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    It's a response to extreme demand during covid. When - you know - online service usage was at all time highs because everyone was stuck inside and doing things online. It was likely the right call to hire then, just like it might be the right call to reduce headcount now.

horsawlarway 4y ago

Not really sure why you're getting downvoted, other than to assume an emotional reaction from the community to layoffs impacting tech. Frankly - People seem to be forgetting that until 2013, MS was still doing stack ranking and routinely letting go of the bottom 10% of their workforce (and they were hardly the only ones doing it...) I don't see it as unusual AT ALL that these companies are doing a wave of cuts to headcounts after the large hiring sprees during covid. Especially as interest rates rise, so they're looking to lower debt burdens in the short term and pay off loans made at low interest rates instead of rolling into a higher interest loan in the new environment. If anything... I'd expect the exact opposite - a CEO that fails to address cost centers as debt becomes more expensive is a liability, and someone the board might be looking to replace (ask to step down). --- Does that mean I'm not sympathetic to those who've lost jobs? Of course not. But tech had to rev the engine pretty hard to handle the extra load during covid when everyone was indoors and doing things online, and now that demand has dropped. So they're letting off the gas pedal. If folks don't like it - blame the game. Work to unionize. Work to incentivize co-ops and shared ownership. Work to increase taxation on these companies and their highest earners (which... if you're in the tech industry almost certainly includes YOU). Don't go work for giant tech conglomerates and then act surprised when they act like giant tech conglomerates...