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The demographics of social gamers are closer to gambling than gaming
- nik_0_0 15y agoInteresting, I always saw the uprise of social games as quite confusing, since myself as a gamer saw no need for these games. It makes sense that these Farmville/Social City/Zynga games then be targeted towards this new, untapped group. I find the Zynga numbers to be interesting, but the correlation confuses me. Is it completely out of left field to follow the 81% gambling figure to correlate that that number of women are visiting casinos/e-casinos and gambling? That seems like a HUGE number.
- davidtyleryork 15y agoHey nik, thanks for the comment. So you know, the number is that 81% of women prefer to play slots when they go to casinos. This doesn't mean that they are 81% of slot machine players (the actual ratio is closer to 52% male, 48% female).
- nik_0_0 15y agoThat makes far more sense :) Thanks for the clarification, I didn't read the data closely enough.
- PeterInouye 15y agoIt's definitely true that different demographics crave different types of competition!
- davidwparker 15y agoNot surprising. Also, if you haven't read the article/story/blog "Who killed videogames: a ghost story", then you should check it out: http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/ http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-g... It talks a lot about the behavior mindsets of social video games.
- davidtyleryork 15y agoGreat article, thanks for sharing :)
- lusr 15y agoThis article makes me want to become a psychomatheconometrician mastermind developer.
- gojomo 15y agoA casino or other social-gaming company is often A/B testing variants to 'increase engagement'. However, such engagement is arguably against the mental/physical health interests of the test subjects. Is A/B optimization in such a case thus an illegal/unethical experiment on human subjects without their informed consent? (Can Zynga 'Whales', that minority of their users contributing most of their revenues via payments of hundreds of dollars a month, actually give informed consent? Or are they on a binge?) Tobacco companies lost giant class-action lawsuits because they (A) hid known harmful effects of their products; and (B) engineered their products to be more addictive. Could companies pushing gamification no matter the cost become the tobacco-company-pariahs of the mid-21st-century?
- tomjen3 15y agoThat seems unlikely. It is kinda hard to know what people have put in your cigarets. It is easy to know what they show you on a screen.
- gojomo 15y agoI don't think the secrecy of the manufacturing formula was a big factor in the tobacco judgements. Everyone knew cigarettes had tobacco, flavorings, and preservatives, and delivered a bunch of nicotine/tar/smoke to the lungs. You can see what's on the screen in Farmville, but do the players understand the effects of periodicity and random reinforcement on the dopaminergic motivational system? The power of well-crafted images and sounds or emotionally manipulative language? Viral loops? We in the industry know these things; for a layperson it's as obscure as the chemistry of physical addiction.
- mattmanser 15y agoBut where do you draw the line? Arguably Diablo, WoW, etc. are all about pointless clicking for pointless reward. Some people call it fun, some people call it manipulation. One has little farms and the other Sword of Wonder +101.
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- username3 15y agoThere's a page not found for your link in the article to Exposing Social Gaming's Hidden Lever. The link under You may also like works. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3165365 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3165365
- davidtyleryork 15y agoACK! Fixed it, thanks for the heads up
- wisty 15y agoI wonder if social gaming will kill casinos and slot machines? If so, I might think it's a little less evil.
- hello_moto 15y agoWouldn't that just change the form factor of gambling? just... with cuter animals to prey on younger targets?
- davidtyleryork 15y agoYes but it will also pull gambling out of the "Sin City" mentality, which is a good thing for both the industry and players
- hello_moto 15y agoI'm a little bit confused. Gambling, no matter what the form factor is, is still gambling. Sin City or not, I doubt it'll change the attitude of people within the gambling industry. They are still the same kind/type of people.
- davidtyleryork 15y agoBut what is gambling compared to a virtual currency social game? They both employ same mechanics, and with gambling you can win real money, and with virtual currency you can only sink money in. There are differences in the amount of money, but the underlying system is largely the same. Also, the American gambling industry is stereotyped to be that "Sin City" type of person, but I would argue that this stereotype isn't the case here or worldwide. Look at the blog post by Josh Hannah, former founder of Betfair and VC at Matrix Partner) on the recent US gambling DOJ ruling: http://www.joshhannah.com/2012/01/us-gambling-goes-online/ http://www.joshhannah.com/2012/01/us-gambling-goes-online/
- wisty 15y agoIt might also lower the financial costs to addicts. It still wastes their time, but I think that's what they want. :/
- toadi 15y agoStill looks a sleasy way to make money. Don't make it feel like gambling and before you know it your broke. Also They fly under regulation radar. Most casino's online/real life have to give back a fixed percentage in winnings. Just looks to me it's a hidden form of gambling and because it's a game they don't have to follow regulations...
- forrestthewoods 15y agoThe article is written by someone in marketing for a company that provides real-money gambling services to video game companies. That their conclusion is "This is why real-money play is such a great fit for social games." is hardly a surprise.
- davidtyleryork 15y agoRight you are ;) We believe that social games are a natural fit for real-money play.
- justinhj 15y agoI'm surprised the article states "Before social gaming, older women were an entirely untapped gaming market, and one that had both time and money to spend on games that could capture their interest." This is patently false. Anyone familiar with the casual gaming industry would know that. For example Big Fish Games and Popcap both had mostly women players. I say had, because social gaming has greatly reduced that market.
- davidtyleryork 15y agoAh, well I definitely missed that when doing my research, but I did build my assumptions into my language (ie using the word "untapped" versus "untouched", implying that it existed but wasn't fully utilized). That said, I think the word "entirely" is misplaced. I'm going to take it out and use "mostly" instead, if that helps :) Also, if you can shoot me an article about the demographics of those games that you mentioned, I will include it in my article. Thanks for pointing that out.
- justinhj 15y agoSome anecdotal references to it in this article from 2006 http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2006/05/26/interview-paul-thelen-big-fish-games http://www.gamezebo.com/news/2006/05/26/interview-paul-thele... I'll let you know if I come up with more.