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Yes -- to be crystal clear, we're not targeting the DOM. We focus on use cases that can and should be expressed in a canvas. We prefer a WebGL canvas, but even

Yes -- to be crystal clear, we're not targeting the DOM. We focus on use cases that can and should be expressed in a canvas. We prefer a WebGL canvas, but even what we refer to as our "HTML renderer" only emulates Flutter's canvas capabilities (e.g. layers). If you are a web developer building with the canvas in mind, we aspire that Flutter is a useful tool. We encourage the use of one of the many other great frameworks out there (or no framework at all) if the DOM is the target. And we aspire to provide great interoperability and accessibility. The web is bigger than documents. And that's why web standards are bigger than the Document Object Model. I'm sorry you see that as badmouthing the web, because it couldn't be further from the truth.

rektide 4y ago
> The web is bigger than documents. And that's why web standards are bigger than the Document Object Model. I'm sorry you see that as badmouthing the web, because it couldn't be further from the truth. Most apps are best represented by DOM. You're not talking about using some of the graphical canvas capabilities the web has to do some graphical things. You're talking about using bitmaps to do all of your apps. It is a new Flash. Right now you have the grace of having few eyes upon your work. As more and more apps start rolling out where people come to understand- this is not a webapp I can script, I have no control over it, no agency- it's a giant bitmap on my screen which acts as a low-level alternative to actually using the technology 99.99999% of the higher-level web works with- I think you'll find that this characterization of your work as 100% web, as totally fine, will be ill received by the public at large. My lone comments right now are easy mode. And you dismiss them as inaccurate. But this low-level use of bitmaps to make entire apps is a big reducer of our capabiliites online, and I am confident that my protests will just be the start, if Flutter web starts to really take off. This is a regression to what the web has been to users, and turns the web into something more like native apps, where we have never had control. This is a loss for humanity. It has some upside too, for some developers, but most devs don't actually need that extreme & divergent set of non-high-level low-level interfaces.

rektide 4y ago

> The web is bigger than documents. And that's why web standards are bigger than the Document Object Model. I'm sorry you see that as badmouthing the web, because it couldn't be further from the truth. Most apps are best represented by DOM. You're not talking about using some of the graphical canvas capabilities the web has to do some graphical things. You're talking about using bitmaps to do all of your apps. It is a new Flash. Right now you have the grace of having few eyes upon your work. As more and more apps start rolling out where people come to understand- this is not a webapp I can script, I have no control over it, no agency- it's a giant bitmap on my screen which acts as a low-level alternative to actually using the technology 99.99999% of the higher-level web works with- I think you'll find that this characterization of your work as 100% web, as totally fine, will be ill received by the public at large. My lone comments right now are easy mode. And you dismiss them as inaccurate. But this low-level use of bitmaps to make entire apps is a big reducer of our capabiliites online, and I am confident that my protests will just be the start, if Flutter web starts to really take off. This is a regression to what the web has been to users, and turns the web into something more like native apps, where we have never had control. This is a loss for humanity. It has some upside too, for some developers, but most devs don't actually need that extreme & divergent set of non-high-level low-level interfaces.