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And the obvious side-effect which nobody really wants to talk about is the destruction of the manufacturing industry in the US and the off-shoring of jobs to Ch

And the obvious side-effect which nobody really wants to talk about is the destruction of the manufacturing industry in the US and the off-shoring of jobs to China. This is why it's so galling to see people in Silicon Valley moaning about the recent round of IT retrenchments. The f*king nerve of them.

astrange 4y ago
US manufacturing output is up, though, just not jobs. That's generally good, just like it's good we aren't all subsistence farmers anymore. US unemployment is of course currently the lowest it's been in 50 years. China got low-value-add final assembly work, and it's now starting to leave them as their wages have risen.
- lazyeye 4y ago
  Up relative to what?
  - astrange 4y ago
    Itself in the past measured in real dollars.
    - georgeplusplus 4y ago
      Looking at what time periods?
      - wardedVibe 4y ago
        As long as there's Fred data, so 2005 [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_St...
      - astrange 4y ago
        https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americ...
throwawayytr 4y ago
Exactly. These are the ones who gave us ads most of which are outright scams.
rybosome 4y ago
Your bitterness is misplaced. Tech companies didn’t cause offshoring of US manufacturing. That’s been a long running trend since the 70’s across business sectors. Not to mention that generally it’s executives at the companies who made the decisions leading to offshoring, and executives aren’t the ones losing their jobs. Tech workers are grossly overpaid, but even so at the end of the day they’re still working class.
- tcmart14 4y ago
  Its the people at the very top of the corporate ladder who makes the calls to offshore. Always good to keep in mind when these same companies bitch and moan about China but are also the same ones who chose to offshore to China. China is, from my understanding, upfront with what they want out of the deal, so there isn't any actual, "well we didn't know so don't blame us." Nah, China told them upfront what those offshoring deals meant.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - kaushikc 4y ago
    The government's you guys "democratically elected" cause pain to the working classes and did everything that the wealthy and asset owning classes dreamed of. What is the point of democracy if there is no democracy at the workplace itself ? Most workplaces are top down central command authoritarian structures and that is what we all have to face day to day, everyday.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      "What is the point of democracy if there is no democracy at the workplace itself?" Do you mean this seriously? Corporations come and go all the time, and if they make a catastrophic decision, usually the worst possible outcome is bankruptcy, not war. Yes, there is a tiny amount of "too big to fail" corporations whose characteristics are closer to a state than to a private organization, but compared to the government, any single corporation has negligible influence on your life. Modern governments have enormous powers.

astrange 4y ago

US manufacturing output is up, though, just not jobs. That's generally good, just like it's good we aren't all subsistence farmers anymore. US unemployment is of course currently the lowest it's been in 50 years. China got low-value-add final assembly work, and it's now starting to leave them as their wages have risen.

lazyeye 4y ago
Up relative to what?
- astrange 4y ago
  Itself in the past measured in real dollars.
  - georgeplusplus 4y ago
    Looking at what time periods?
    - wardedVibe 4y ago
      As long as there's Fred data, so 2005 [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_St...
    - astrange 4y ago
      https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americ...

throwawayytr 4y ago

Exactly. These are the ones who gave us ads most of which are outright scams.

rybosome 4y ago

Your bitterness is misplaced. Tech companies didn’t cause offshoring of US manufacturing. That’s been a long running trend since the 70’s across business sectors. Not to mention that generally it’s executives at the companies who made the decisions leading to offshoring, and executives aren’t the ones losing their jobs. Tech workers are grossly overpaid, but even so at the end of the day they’re still working class.

tcmart14 4y ago
Its the people at the very top of the corporate ladder who makes the calls to offshore. Always good to keep in mind when these same companies bitch and moan about China but are also the same ones who chose to offshore to China. China is, from my understanding, upfront with what they want out of the deal, so there isn't any actual, "well we didn't know so don't blame us." Nah, China told them upfront what those offshoring deals meant.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kaushikc 4y ago
  The government's you guys "democratically elected" cause pain to the working classes and did everything that the wealthy and asset owning classes dreamed of. What is the point of democracy if there is no democracy at the workplace itself ? Most workplaces are top down central command authoritarian structures and that is what we all have to face day to day, everyday.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    "What is the point of democracy if there is no democracy at the workplace itself?" Do you mean this seriously? Corporations come and go all the time, and if they make a catastrophic decision, usually the worst possible outcome is bankruptcy, not war. Yes, there is a tiny amount of "too big to fail" corporations whose characteristics are closer to a state than to a private organization, but compared to the government, any single corporation has negligible influence on your life. Modern governments have enormous powers.