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Author here. > If you're charging a subscription fee The DRM applies even if you charge no fee. > why would you expect Apple to make it available to competin

Author here. > If you're charging a subscription fee The DRM applies even if you charge no fee. > why would you expect Apple to make it available to competing podcast apps Because every single other podcast hosting service does, with the exception of folks that signed a contract with Spotify. > If you post something on TikTok it doesn't show up on people's Facebook feeds. It can, actually. You can post a link. If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. > Apple isn't taking away self-hosted RSS podcast feeds. That was never the point, and not my concern. What they're doing is tricking small podcasters into signing up for a cheap service that prevents them from ever leaving.

andrewjl 4y ago
> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. I'm curious if this sort of arrangement will remain in place in Europe once the DMA interoperability requirements come into effect.
- SllX 4y ago
  I look at the DMA and I start to wonder if all Europe is really going to get out of this is “EU editions” of products; and not just from Apple. They’re certainly a lucrative market, probably deserving of their own SKUs.
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Maybe. Note that, like most other US companies, and especially ones accused of espionage, Apple has been illegal in the EU since 2015, though enforcement of this has been understandably foot-dragging.
SllX 4y ago
If you’re paying money, signing an agreement and uploading files, Apple isn’t tricking you: you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen (there are podcasters who for reasons—good or not—assume their reach is only about as far as iTunes/Apple Podcasts). This is crap, but it’s not because the deal Apple is offering to podcasters is crap: $20/year hosting and distribution into the biggest podcast ecosystem that exists with the option to charge a premium and keep 70%; it’s because they’re trying to turn their Podcast app into YouTube for Podcasts with an App Store model which is just on its face total crap. The fix is to find a different hosting provider and decline the services Apple is offering you.
- janalsncm 4y ago
  I can’t agree that signing an agreement means Apple gets to behave however they want within the confines of the law. A contract should not be something that one hides behind, but something that someone holds up as enshrining a shared, common sense understanding of an agreement. The fact that an Apple Podcasts user tried to do something that is 1) not unreasonable given other podcasting platforms and 2) not clearly understood to be contractually barred tells me that there is unacceptable deception. Companies can write all sorts of convoluted (and legally enforceable) contracts but that is not the future we should be striving towards. Having the law on your side does not make it ethical.
  - SllX 4y ago
    If you’re a hobbyist, you might go “oh no, this won’t work out, Overcast users can’t see my podcast” and switch hosting providers. If you’re going into podcasting as a business, don’t skimp on having a lawyer review the things you’ll be signing up and paying for, and if you skimp on that and get unlucky, expect to be doing the work required to move providers if what you signed up for isn’t satisfactory. It’s really that simple. This service costs this much and has these limitations, that service costs more but doesn’t have those limitations. So yeah, when you sign a service agreement, expect only exactly what the service offers in the agreement, and if the terms are not satisfactory, go sign with someone else. What is the issue? If I can’t find someone’s podcast in Overcast, I’m simply never going to consider even listening to it. Conversely, some podcasters are actually okay with that and would prefer to pay for cheaper hosting. That’s a valid choice for them to make too, but they are making a choice whether they pay attention to it or not. Also: just a note, this is only a hosting issue. You can still list your podcast in the iTunes Podcast Directory (or whatever it’s called now) without hosting on Apple’s servers.
    - bastawhiz 4y ago
      > expect only exactly what the service offers in the agreement, and if the terms are not satisfactory, go sign with someone else. You can't go somewhere else, because going somewhere else means starting over from scratch. That's the whole point of my post: you're locked in. The customer who reached out with this issue has hundreds of episodes and can't reasonably manually reupload them all to another service.
tootie 4y ago
Apple announced they would allow passthrough hosting for premium feeds a few weeks ago. Right now it's only open to handful of big hosting partners, but will probably open up more in the near future. This was likely more about laziness and/or rushing to market that it was a genuine ploy. Apple is still the bulk of our listening (60ish%) and we still get all the first-party download metrics from our hosting service. Premium feeds are rehosted by Apple and it's huge PITA because we have ad-supported public feeds and ad-free premium feeds and need to build them twice. That will hopefully be fixed soon.
filoleg 4y ago
> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. Unless I am misunderstanding your claim, this is not true. You can listen to Apple Podcasts using iTunes for Windows. You can also listen to them on Android. But dealing with it on Android is indeed annoying, because it requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to your Android phone after finding the locally stored files. However, it is easy to sidestep all of that if the podcast creator just uploads to multiple podcast hosting platforms.
- tshaddox 4y ago
  You can also listen to it on the Apple Podcasts website, e.g. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?itscg=10000&itsct=pod-ovp-galsho-apl-ref-22_0413 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736...
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    The podcasts in question can't be played in the browser. It always forces you to open Apple Podcasts. Here's an example: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708685 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708...
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  > requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to your Android phone after finding the locally stored files. TFA says they're DRMed, are they still readable on a random android client just by moving the files ?
  - filoleg 4y ago
    That part of TFA confused me as well, because I just tested it out on my Win10 desktop, and it worked effortlessly. I didn't even have to search for the local files. iTunes had a nice "Show in Windows Explorer" button next to the episode I downloaded, which opened a directory with the mp3 audio file for the episode (neatly tagged and named and all). I opened it with VLC and confirmed that the playback works perfectly fine. Disclaimer: I haven't tested the part with transferring the file to an Android device specifically. But if an mp3 audio file plays fine in any third-party media player on Windows, I think it is safe to assume that it would play fine on Android as well.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
freewizard 4y ago
> The DRM applies even if you charge no fee. Thank you. This is important to call out this, as DRM a paid episode seems a practical solution, but DRM free episode is absolutely taking aways reasonable options from creators and audiences.

andrewjl 4y ago

> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. I'm curious if this sort of arrangement will remain in place in Europe once the DMA interoperability requirements come into effect.

SllX 4y ago
I look at the DMA and I start to wonder if all Europe is really going to get out of this is “EU editions” of products; and not just from Apple. They’re certainly a lucrative market, probably deserving of their own SKUs.
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  Maybe. Note that, like most other US companies, and especially ones accused of espionage, Apple has been illegal in the EU since 2015, though enforcement of this has been understandably foot-dragging.

SllX 4y ago

If you’re paying money, signing an agreement and uploading files, Apple isn’t tricking you: you’re not doing your due diligence OR you just don’t care if anyone outside the Podcasts app can listen (there are podcasters who for reasons—good or not—assume their reach is only about as far as iTunes/Apple Podcasts). This is crap, but it’s not because the deal Apple is offering to podcasters is crap: $20/year hosting and distribution into the biggest podcast ecosystem that exists with the option to charge a premium and keep 70%; it’s because they’re trying to turn their Podcast app into YouTube for Podcasts with an App Store model which is just on its face total crap. The fix is to find a different hosting provider and decline the services Apple is offering you.

janalsncm 4y ago
I can’t agree that signing an agreement means Apple gets to behave however they want within the confines of the law. A contract should not be something that one hides behind, but something that someone holds up as enshrining a shared, common sense understanding of an agreement. The fact that an Apple Podcasts user tried to do something that is 1) not unreasonable given other podcasting platforms and 2) not clearly understood to be contractually barred tells me that there is unacceptable deception. Companies can write all sorts of convoluted (and legally enforceable) contracts but that is not the future we should be striving towards. Having the law on your side does not make it ethical.
- SllX 4y ago
  If you’re a hobbyist, you might go “oh no, this won’t work out, Overcast users can’t see my podcast” and switch hosting providers. If you’re going into podcasting as a business, don’t skimp on having a lawyer review the things you’ll be signing up and paying for, and if you skimp on that and get unlucky, expect to be doing the work required to move providers if what you signed up for isn’t satisfactory. It’s really that simple. This service costs this much and has these limitations, that service costs more but doesn’t have those limitations. So yeah, when you sign a service agreement, expect only exactly what the service offers in the agreement, and if the terms are not satisfactory, go sign with someone else. What is the issue? If I can’t find someone’s podcast in Overcast, I’m simply never going to consider even listening to it. Conversely, some podcasters are actually okay with that and would prefer to pay for cheaper hosting. That’s a valid choice for them to make too, but they are making a choice whether they pay attention to it or not. Also: just a note, this is only a hosting issue. You can still list your podcast in the iTunes Podcast Directory (or whatever it’s called now) without hosting on Apple’s servers.
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    > expect only exactly what the service offers in the agreement, and if the terms are not satisfactory, go sign with someone else. You can't go somewhere else, because going somewhere else means starting over from scratch. That's the whole point of my post: you're locked in. The customer who reached out with this issue has hundreds of episodes and can't reasonably manually reupload them all to another service.

tootie 4y ago

Apple announced they would allow passthrough hosting for premium feeds a few weeks ago. Right now it's only open to handful of big hosting partners, but will probably open up more in the near future. This was likely more about laziness and/or rushing to market that it was a genuine ploy. Apple is still the bulk of our listening (60ish%) and we still get all the first-party download metrics from our hosting service. Premium feeds are rehosted by Apple and it's huge PITA because we have ad-supported public feeds and ad-free premium feeds and need to build them twice. That will hopefully be fixed soon.

filoleg 4y ago

> If I upload a podcast to Apple, it's physically inaccessible unless you have a Mac or an iOS device. Unless I am misunderstanding your claim, this is not true. You can listen to Apple Podcasts using iTunes for Windows. You can also listen to them on Android. But dealing with it on Android is indeed annoying, because it requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to your Android phone after finding the locally stored files. However, it is easy to sidestep all of that if the podcast creator just uploads to multiple podcast hosting platforms.

tshaddox 4y ago
You can also listen to it on the Apple Podcasts website, e.g. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736?itscg=10000&itsct=pod-ovp-galsho-apl-ref-22_0413 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily/id1200361736...
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  The podcasts in question can't be played in the browser. It always forces you to open Apple Podcasts. Here's an example: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708685 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/test-podcast/id1667708...
makeitdouble 4y ago
> requires downloading podcasts in itunes on your desktop, and then manually transferring them to your Android phone after finding the locally stored files. TFA says they're DRMed, are they still readable on a random android client just by moving the files ?
- filoleg 4y ago
  That part of TFA confused me as well, because I just tested it out on my Win10 desktop, and it worked effortlessly. I didn't even have to search for the local files. iTunes had a nice "Show in Windows Explorer" button next to the episode I downloaded, which opened a directory with the mp3 audio file for the episode (neatly tagged and named and all). I opened it with VLC and confirmed that the playback works perfectly fine. Disclaimer: I haven't tested the part with transferring the file to an Android device specifically. But if an mp3 audio file plays fine in any third-party media player on Windows, I think it is safe to assume that it would play fine on Android as well.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

freewizard 4y ago

> The DRM applies even if you charge no fee. Thank you. This is important to call out this, as DRM a paid episode seems a practical solution, but DRM free episode is absolutely taking aways reasonable options from creators and audiences.